User talk:Dieter Gerhardt

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Yoenit (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed Edit of Post "Dieter Gerhardt"

In order to appropriately amend content and bring the Dieter Gerhardt Spy post in Wikipedia up to an adequate standard from the existing datum entry editing assistance from the Wikipedia Editing Community and a fair understanding of sub-Saharan African de-colonialization politics as from the 50’s to date will be required. Additionally, an understanding of the drivers of the cold war i.e. West’s versus the Soviet/Mainland China’s role in the decolonization process where the latter two power blocks working in conjunction with the African Guerilla Forces removed these African States from under the influence and/or control Colonial Powers such as Britain and Portugal as well as the white minority regime of the Apartheid Nationalist Government which occurred during the period under consideration. Attending to the cold war problems with the eastern power blocks enjoyed the west’s highest priority, well above concepts such as “ recognition and implementation of human rights” or freedom for indigenous peoples. Thus the West continued to covertly cooperate with the so-called “pariah” states including SA despite various United Nations resolutions condemning policies of “Imperialism” and the Apartheid regime. Furthermore in the editing process cognizance should be taken of the interventions in the SA region of various the intelligence agencies and their modus operandi regarding compartmentalization, targeting, publishing misinformation etc. With regard to the personal information presented on the individual Dieter Gerhardt currently in the public domain it is perhaps also advisable to mull over some relatively recently exposed verifiable facts regarding his life as a spy as well as the correct chronological order of purported events which too can be relatively easily confirmed from existing sources. Two additional references for inclusion in the List of References are the recently published volume 1. SIMON’S TOWN DOCKYARD THE FIRST 100 YEARS. Published By Simon’s Town Historical Society South African Naval Heritage Trust Researched and compiled by Capt Bill Rice SAN (Ret) (3rd November,2010 2. Spion.spion ‘n Ware(?) Verhaal Article in the BV of the SA Sunday “Beeld” (attached for easy reference)

Regarding the subject and the existing entry in Wikipedia it is not intended to expand on quoted activities other than to correct chronological order of events and/or expunge events that were attributed erroneously or were otherwise incorrect and/or speculation. The current Wikipedia entry(own pov) relies excessively on significant misinformation published by the U.S. and U.K. shortly after arrest. This, with a view to “demonizing” the subject. A very normal process! One reality is that at the time of the defection in place occurring SA had declared itself a Republic and had opted out of the Commonwealth unilaterally. The treason attributed to subject would in legal terms be confined to SA. All other operations against other western countries including Israel would fall in the normal category of conducting espionage against foreign powers who were officially not allied but continued to provide significant support and assistance to the Apartheid regime over the decades that followed. The support was provided in exchange for SA’s efforts against the Warsaw Pact mentored freedom fighters in sub-Saharan Africa as well as continuing to provide rare minerals and metals required for the space and military industries. The recognition of the legitimacy of the goals and objectives of the African indigenous peoples freedom struggle was actually the most important component of the subject DFG’s motivation to defect. Decades later, after the breakup of the Soviet Union, the West too came around to a similar viewpoint - it had become clear that the indefinite propping up non-democratic minority regimes who ignored the normal human rights conventions was not a viable proposition in most cases –Saudi Arabia being an exception at present! .

Edit proposal is as follows Current Version Dieter Felix Gerhardt (born 1936) was a Commodore in the South African Navy and commander of the Simon's Town naval dockyard. In 1982, he was arrested and convicted by the Apartheid State for High Treason as a Soviet spy together with his second wife, Ruth. Edit Proposal Dieter Felix Gerhardt (born 1935) was ……….. his second wife, Ruth. Amended Birthdate which is 01-11-1935 to (1935) from current (1936). If required Cite Birth Certificate SA90633 registered in Cape Town issued 12th March 1935 Current Version Continued Contents [hide 1 Cold War 2 South Africa 3 Arrest 4 Release 5 Further reading 6 See also 7 References 8 External links [edit] Cold War Gerhardt started his spying career early, offering his services to the South African Communist Party who referred him to the Soviet embassy in London while still a junior naval officer. He was recruited into the GRU, the Soviet military intelligence branch. It was 1962, and he was on a Royal Navy mine school in Portsmouth and did the Parachute Training Course at RAF Abingdon. He was a graduate of and winner of the Sword of Honour in 1956 from the naval academy at Saldanha Bay. After his basic training in Britain, he was attached to the Royal Navy.[1] for further advanced training. After background checks to ensure that his story was true, the Russian GRU placed him on their payroll. British journalist and security services specialist Chapman Pincher maintained that, while in London in the late 1960s, he was able to interview Royal Navy Polaris submarine crews for potential candidates that the Soviets could approach, this is probably inaccurate since his recruitment was only in 1962.[citation needed] It was also during this time that he met his first wife, British-born Janet Coggin whom he married in 1958. Coggin says she became aware of her husband's Cold War spying activities eight years later in 1966,[2][3] but chose not to turn him in, fearing that he would be executed, leaving her children fatherless. She says Gerhardt eventually gave her an ultimatum to become a spy too, which she declined, forcing the couple's separation. She divorced him in 1966 and moved to Ireland with her children, living in constant fear of the Soviet security services. She subsequently published a book in 1999 about her experiences called 'The Spy's Wife'.[3] In 1973 Gerhardt married his second wife, Ruth Johr, a Swiss citizen who author Chapman Pincher claims was already a spy for the German Democratic Republic, although there is no independent evidence for this.[4]

Edit Proposal

He joined the S.A.N. as a boy seaman in 1952. He was a graduate of the naval academy at Saldanha Bay and winner of the Sword of Honour in 1956. Thereafter he was sent to the U.K. for extensive engineering training at various R.N. institutions in Devonport and Portsmouth This training included sea time in the Mediterranean off Cyprus and in the north Atlantic off Iceland, the diving course at Devonport and the Parachute Training course at Abingdon near Oxford. It was also at this time that he met his first wife, British born Janet Coggin whom he married in 1958. *Treasons of Conscience” Israel Ronen Bergman Haaretz Magazine dd 07.04.2000). Cold War Gerhardt started his spying career early, offering his services to the South African Communist Party who referred him to the appropriate Soviet Representatives stationed in London while still a junior naval officer. He was then subsequently recruited into the GRU, the Soviet military intelligence branch. It was 1963, and he was on an advanced Weapons and Radio Course at a Royal Navy Weapons school in Portsmouth. After background checks the Russian GRU placed him in service.

British journalist and security services specialist Chapman Pincher maintained that, while in stationed in London as part of a small recruiting team for the SA submarine service, he was able to interview Royal Navy Polaris submarine crews for potential candidates that the Soviets could approach. A similar claim was made by journalist Mervyn Rees * The Spy who knew it all” Mail on Sunday” London 20-11-83 pp.1-2,31-34.

Coggin says she became aware of her husbands cold war spying activities eight years later in 1966 but chose not to turn him in, fearing he would be executed, leaving her children fatherless. She says Gerhardt eventually gave her an ultimatum to become a spy too, which she declined forcing the couples separation They were divorced him in 1968 and she moved to Ireland with their children. She subsequently published a novel in 1999 about her experiences called the “Spy’s Wife”. In 1968 Existing Text In 1973 Gerhardt married his second wife, Ruth Johr, a Swiss citizen who author Chapman Pincher claims was already a spy for the German Democratic Republic, although there is no independent evidence for this.[4] Proposed Edit In 1969 Gerhardt married his second wife, Ruth Joehr, a Swiss Citizen who he met in Klosters whilst on a skiing holiday. She subsequently was recruited by him to act as courier and assistant.

Note .: A number of small amendments were made to this section of the text body which (in subject?s POV) reflected more accurately the actual chronological order of events and the actual situation. e.g. The following line was omitted.” apparently living in constant fear of the Soviet security services”. Dramatization ! It is not Intelligence Service modus to persecute family members of a spy unless they too were directly involved. Her safety would have been secured whether she reported subject or not! The claim by Chapman Pincher that Ruth Joehr was already a spy for the German Democratic Republic is not correct. As already indicated there is no independent evidence for this i.e. pure speculation! Hence the alternative editing proposal has been submitted above Existing Text

South Africa Gerhardt rose through the ranks of the naval establishment to commander of the strategically important Simonstown naval dockyard. In this position, he had access to all the South African Naval intelligence reports, technical details of weapons systems as well as ship and aircraft movements in southern Africa. He claims direct involvement in aspects of Israeli and South Africa's military cooperation, using this position in 1975 to pass Israeli secrets to the Soviets.[5] During the Falklands War, Gerhardt was able to use his position to supply the Soviets with detailed information about the locations of British ships in the south Atlantic that the South African Navy intercepted via its sophisticated listening post at Silvermine, near Cape Town.[6] It is also likely that he had some knowledge of the South African Army and Air Force's secrets and plans regarding the South African Border War. He claimed that the United States and the Soviet Union met in 1978 to discuss South Africa's nuclear weapons programme, and that the Soviets proposed a pre-emptive strike on the Pelindaba plant.[7] [edit proposal] South Africa Gerhardt rose through the ranks of the naval establishment to eventually become in 1979 commander of the strategically important Simonstown naval dockyard. In this position, he had wide insight into intelligence reports, technical details of weapons systems as well as the South African battle order. During the period 1972-78 he was appointed as a senior staff officer to the Chief of the SADF at Defense Headquarters in Pretoria. In this position he was able to access South African Army and Air Force's secrets and plans regarding the South African Border War. Israeli Authorities claim his direct involvement in many aspects of Israeli and South Africa's military cooperation, using this position in 1975 to pass Israeli secrets to the Soviets.[5] He claimed that the United States and the Soviet Union met in 1978 to discuss South Africa's nuclear weapons programme, and that the Soviets proposed a pre-emptive strike on the Pelindaba plant.[7]

Note Comment: This following information is not correct - probably misinformation! The real time access that would have been required by Gerhardt to provide locations of British Ships as indicated in text simply did not exist. The SA Silvermine Listening post where this information may have been held was a completely different command to that held by Gerhardt and normal compartmentalization between establishments would have prevented necessary insight. Besides not having the personal desire to get involved in anyway in the Argentinian –British dispute, Gerhardt’s domain of operations also excluded this possibility. Thus the editing proposal is to delete the following clause entirely “During the Falklands War, Gerhardt was able to use his position to supply the Soviets with detailed information about the locations of British ships in the south Atlantic that the South African Navy intercepted via its sophisticated listening post at Silvermine, near Cape Town.[6]” Existing Text Arrest While the South Africans were initially none the wiser, the United States Central Intelligence Agency had its suspicions about there being a spy in southern Africa. Gerhard's cover was finally blown by Soviet double agent Vladimir Vetrov[8] (codename "Boris"), who knew of him.[9] Gerhardt was arrested in a sting operation in New York by the Federal Bureau of Investigation while he was taking a degree in mathematics at a New York University. He was deported and tried in camera in Cape Town, with a life sentence being handed down in December 1983 for high treason, while his wife received a 10-year sentence for acting as a courier.[10] Gerhardt put forward two explanations for his treachery. Initially he stated that he was disillusioned by the war-time internment of his German father, a Nazi sympathizer, at Koffiefontein concentration camp.[9] However he later contended that he was opposed to the apartheid government, and sought black liberation. [edit proposal] Line 4 :Delete (Codename “Boris”) and insert (codename “Farewell”) Below a edit proposal of this sections final para Gerhardt put forward two reasons for his for his treason. He stated firstly that he was disillusioned by his German (a Nazi sympathizer and ex- Koffiefontein internee) father’s political participation in the post WWII build up of the Apartheid State Security structures and secondly he was he was opposed to the apartheid government, which he considered inequitable and illegitimate. He sought black liberation

Existing Text Section Release Dieter Gerhardt was released in 1992 in a deal with the African National Congress just before the historic first democratic elections in 1994 in South Africa, and emigrated to Basel, Switzerland. His wife Ruth Gerhardt was released already in 1990.[11] Gerhardt was subsequently also granted amnesty in 1999 under the new government by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.[12] In February 1994, he stated in the Johannesburg City Press that the Vela Incident was the result of a joint Israeli-South African nuclear test, code-named Operation Phoenix. He stated that he had no first hand knowledge of the alleged test, despite being commander of the Simonstown Naval Base at the time. He also specifically stated that no South African warships had been involved. [edit]proposal for Current Text Release A State President’s pardon was granted to Dieter Gerhardt in August 1992 at the personal request of Boris Yeltsin of the Russian Federation This was after the African National Congress had formally requested his release some months earlier and been refused. The release occurred shortly before historic first democratic elections in 1994 in South Africa, Thereafter he traveled to Basel, Switzerland to join up his wife Ruth and son Gregory. His wife Ruth Gerhardt had been released already in 1990.[11] Gerhardt was subsequently also granted amnesty in 1999 under the new government by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.[12] . Restitution of rank as Rear Admiral (jg) followed in 2007.cite ref SIMON’S TOWN DOCKYARD THE FIRST 100 YEARS. Published By Simon’s Town Historical Society South African Naval Heritage Trust Researched and compiled by Capt Bill Rice SAN (Ret) (3rd November,2010) (Ref not in public domain MS/509/1/118943 MOD 19/07/2007) In February 1994, the Johannesburg City Press reported that Gerhardt had indicated that the Vela Incident was the result of a joint Israeli-South African nuclear test, code-named Operation Phoenix. He in turn denied the report stating he had been misquoted and that he had no first hand knowledge of the alleged Test as he was not the Commander of the Simon’s Town Naval Base at the time. He also specifically stated that no South African warships had been involved. However he had previously accessed the SA nuclear program at various critical points and informed the Soviets of a proliferation program and Pretoria’s nuclear intentions. AlJ.Venter. a reputable and well informed investigative journalist and author claimed in his book “ How South Africa Built Six Atom Bombs” Ashanti Publishing ISBN 078-0-9814098-4-9 2008” that by that one act of Gerhardt’s intervention in informing the Soviets of Pretoria’s nuclear intentions he almost certainly changed the course of events in South Africa and prevented SA establishing itself as a member of the Nuclear Club. End of proposed edit Have also attached some relatively recent documentation which may have relevance. An important additional reference in addition to those already mentioned above is *”The Unspoken Alliance” Israel’s Secret Relationship with Apartheid South Africa by Sasha Polokov-Suransky Pantheon Books New York ISBN 978-0-375-42546-2 2010 This carefully research book has uncovered a number of “smoking guns” and placed them in the public domain, much to the chagrin of Israel and certain sections of the SA public. Hopefully the additional information supplied will be of assistance to the responsible editorial team With best regards Dieter Gerhardt Attachments

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Signing comments

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Source/Publication

As you seem to be Dieter Gerhardt: According to this link, you made an interview with Andre Pretorius in 2011 about your story. Do you know if this interview has already been published somewhere? It could be used as a source of information for the article.--Severino (talk) 11:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

No personal attacks

[1] Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

31 Jan 2012

(Point 2. where you call another editor a "mampara", and a "disgruntled PFP (pack for Perth) South African ex British colonialist" ) Please stop attacking other editors. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

February 2012

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You could also click on the signature button or located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when they said it. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 04:27, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

April 2012

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You could also click on the signature button or located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when they said it. Thank you. Socrates2008 (Talk) 11:12, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

File:Letter from Nelson Mandela to Dieter Gerhardt.pdf listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Letter from Nelson Mandela to Dieter Gerhardt.pdf, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Socrates2008 (Talk) 12:36, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

ANI notice concerning legal threat at Talk:Dieter Gerhardt

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