User talk:Daveswagon/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Daveswagon. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Welcome!

Welcome!

Hello, Daveswagon/Archive 1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Flcelloguy ^{Give me a note!} 23:37, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contributions

Hello, Daveswagon. I noticed you've been making good contributions to Minnesota articles. It is appreciated. Welcome! Jonathunder 2005 July 3 17:15 (UTC)

Image:Stearns-county-courthouse.jpg

Thank you for uploading Image:Stearns-county-courthouse.jpg. Its copyright status is unclear, so it may have to be deleted. Please leave a note on the image page about the source of the image. Thank you. —Mulad (talk) July 3, 2005 03:09 (UTC)

Since resolved, released by creator (me!)--Daveswagon 00:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Category:Millennial Wikipedians

Category:Millennial Wikipedians has been listed on categories for deletion. Since you are using it on your user page please weigh in on the vote and that of the other generational categories here. Thanks. -JCarriker 20:04, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Minneapolis meetup

Hello Dave. I'm contacting you since you are listed at Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Minnesota. I'm going to be at a conference in Minneapolis and am planning a Wikipedia meetup for October 8. If you are near Minneapolis at that time, please see Wikipedia:Meetup/Minneapolis. Angela . 20:57, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

See No Evil

Hi, I just saw your comments on Talk:Robert Baer. Do you recommend the book? In other words, is it worth reading? --Viriditas 14:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm particularly interested in the differences between the book and the movie. I'll see if I can find it at the book store. --Viriditas 23:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Piranhaplant.gif

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St.Cloud

I have noticed you have reverted edits to the St.cloud article a few times. As part of WP:BITE please try and have clear comments on why you are reverting copy, such as "SCSU is mentioned at the bottom of the article". It will also help prevent getting in a revert war. It is also helpfull to leave comments on the users talk page if you have differing view points over article copy. Thanks! -Ravedave 04:50, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

ChinesePod

Go ahead and review the guidelines in WP:WEB. If you think your article meets those, go ahead and removed the prod tag, explaining briefly in the little comment box how it meets them, or at least that is meets them. See you around. the.crazy.russian (T) (C) (E) 02:43, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

You really should assert why you removed the PROD tag, in case this article comes up on AfD in future. You can do it on its Talk page. the.crazy.russian (T) (C) (E) 03:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Minnesota talk page

I noticed you asked your question at the top of the talk page on Talk:Minnesota traditionally they go at the bottom, you will probably get more responses there. -Ravedave 06:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Huh I just read your user page and saw that you worked at the paper mill in Sauk rapids, my girlfriend from college (when I went to SCSU) worked there, his last name was Snyder. -Ravedave 06:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Citizens for Retiring the Penny

You created Citizens for Retiring the Penny. Is there a reason why this can't be simply a redirect to Efforts to eliminate the penny? The latter article has more detail, and already has a link to the website for CRP. It seems to be a duplication of efforts. Ted^Talk/_{Contributions} 21:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I see where you are coming from. I do note that the Coin Coalition's main thrust seems to be elimination of the paper dollar. I haven't looked around much, but if there is an article on eliminating the dollar bill, then the Coin Coalition should redirect there. I'll dig around a little and see what I can find. Ted^Talk/_{Contributions} 22:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I looked around on the web for Coin Coalition and couldn't find anything more recent than 2003. They haven't even renewed their domain name. The original author hasn't contributed since Jan 2005. Ted^Talk/_{Contributions} 00:01, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Re:Revisions

Hi there, sorry for the belated reply. As far as I know, it is impossible to delete old revisions of an image, however, if you wish, I could delete the image itself, and then you can upload it again, that would have the same effect. Let me know if you'd like me to do that. :) Cheers -- Bane s 17:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Sartell Bridges

My apologies for replying to a question you asked Elkman, but I was involved in making the list. I've pasted a section here for explanation.

Name	Carries	Location	Miles above the Ohio	Coordinates
Sartell Bridge		Sartell, Minnesota		45°37′05″N 94°12′11″W / 45.61806°N 94.20306°W / 45.61806; -94.20306
County Road 78 Bridge		South of Sartell, Minnesota		45°36′58″N 94°12′05″W / 45.61611°N 94.20139°W / 45.61611; -94.20139

I don't live in Minnesota, so when I made the list, I pretty much went up the river using mapping software and recorded locations of bridges. The further up river I went, the more bridges there were and the less obvious the names were. If you click the coordinates on the right of the table then click Find this location on Acme Mapper. It will put an X on the bridge it means. Looking at the aerial photo the girder one is called County Road 78 Bridge and the older, trussed one just up river is called Sartell Bridge in the list. Maybe Sartell Bridge and Old Sartell Bridge would be better names, but I didn't know what else to call them at the time. If you have better name, preferably an indisputable, locally referenced one, then let me or someone else know via Talk:List of crossings of the Upper Mississippi River. --Dual Freq 01:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I probably should have said South Sartell not South of Sartell. Sorry for the confusion. Personally, I wouldn't object to changing the names to the ones I mentioned above, just change the template on the bottom of the Sartell Bridge page and update the rest of the article. Is it really County Road 78 or is it 1st Street or 2nd Street. The maps are not very descriptive, looks like 2nd Street on the west and 1st Street on the east. Is the older bridge a walking path or is it closed / condemned and soon to be torn down? Dual Freq 02:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I just got your message (I was out this evening, and now it's pretty late for a detailed reply.) I have a book, "Climbing the Mississippi River Bridge by Bridge, Volume 2" that I've used as a resource. According to that, the bridge currently in use is named "Benton County Road 29 Bridge, Sartell, Minnesota". It's an 11-span concrete girder bridge. The writer gave the old bridge the name "Sartell, Minnesota Utility Lines Bridge", which probably isn't an official name. I think "Sartell Bridge" and "Old Sartell Bridge" are appropriate titles. I'm not sure how many people would know which name to use when searching for the bridge, anyway -- they'd probably find it from a list. (As opposed to the Stone Arch Bridge, which has an official name and is much more widely known as a landmark.) I'll fill in the infoboxes with information from the book tomorrow. In any case, thanks for contributing! I have more ideas for articles around central Minnesota if you're willing to help out, too. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 06:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Sartell, Minnesota

I was looking for some additional bridge information and I discovered that the History section of the Sartell, Minnesota article is nearly a direct copy and paste from Sartell, MN City history which includes a copyright 2004 notice at the bottom of the page. I'm not sure how this material got there, but it needs to be substantially modified to remove copyright infringement. Even slightly rewording the material is still a copyright violation. I thought I'd let you know since your name appears fairly often in the page history. Wikipedia:Copyrights has more information on how to correct this problem. Its OK to use copyrighted material as a reference, but it's not OK to copy and paste something and then add a citation to link the source. That is unless that source is free. US Federal Government pages are mostly public domain, but state and local government pages are often copyrighted. Using copyrighted material can expose this project to legal action. Just rewrite the history section in your own words using the the city page as a reference for important details. Thanks. Dual Freq 19:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

History Of Minnesota

FYI, I wouldn't bother with cleaning the history section (unless you want to re-write) hopefully it will be re-written soon. -Ravedave 04:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Minnesota Cities

Take a look at the External Links section for Duluth, MN. A little excessive? Kablammo 14:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't. I didn't see the talk page. (I posted a followup.) The question is, where does one stop cutting? Kablammo 22:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Oldsaukrapidsbridge.jpg

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Re: Sauk Rapids Bridge

I was uploading a pic of the Sauk Rapids Bridge and noticed the article says it has three stone piers. I only counted two. Is there something else that counts as a pier that I'm missing?--Daveswagon 23:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Good question. I took a look at the picture that you uploaded and I only count two piers in the middle of the river. It's possible that there's a third pier on the far side from your picture, which might be on the riverbank and not actually in the river. I don't actually have the book any more (it was from the library), so I can't really verify how many piers there are. On the other hand, if you go there and definitely count only two piers, plus the footings on each side, go ahead and change it to say it has two piers. (That might be original research, but I'm not going to call you on that.) --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 23:25, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I took the pictures myself and some of the other shots clearly show only two piers in the water. I've changed the article to reflect this. BTW, I also added an image of the New Sauk Rapids Bridge. If you can identify a bridge type from its picture, it'd be great if you could add that to its info box. Thanks.--Daveswagon 23:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

That's a plate girder bridge. You can tell because the vertical section is very deep, and steel mills don't make girders that tall -- they're fabricated from mostly flat pieces of steel after they leave the steel mill. I went ahead and added that to the infobox. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 01:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Versosartellmill.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Versosartellmill.jpg. The image description page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 09:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Updated to reflect promotional image (plus the existing notice of permission).--Daveswagon 08:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Replacing photos

I've added hundreds of photos to Wikipedia, and in all that time have only replaced others' photos a couple times, when a photo was clearly inferior or inappropriate, and when I did I notified the originator of the photo that was bumped. I consider it rude to delete someone else's work, unless there is a very good reason. The image you added is nice, and adds to the page, so why did you think it necessary to bump the other? Furthermore the image you added has problems, as the fair use policy is not completely clear, and it may get bumped for that reason. If so, under your edit, there would then be NO image. Please show some Wikicourtesy in future edits. Pollinator 15:36, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Daveswagon, The picture you added is much better, and also wikipedia is not an image gallery. You did the right thing. -Ravedave 20:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I offended you with my edits. I did not "delete" your photo as you accuse, evidenced by the fact that you seemingly had no trouble re-adding it to the article. Considering that the whole theory of Wikipedia is built on editing, changing, and removing others' work, I'm a bit perplexed by your harsh reaction to this. Your image was good but it was of low resolution and does not clearly show the form of a paper mill. There is no reason to have two images on such a short article. Wikipedia is not an image gallery. I requested the image for Wikipedia directly from the mill's management and was furnished with it and given explicit permission to use it for this purpose. If this is insufficient or my tags are inappropriate, please correct me on this. Furtheremore, I would greatly appreciate you assuming good faith in the future, as I can assure you my intentions were nothing but. Thank you.--Daveswagon 00:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: 125th Street Bridge

I took a look at the article, and it looks correct. As far as other stuff in the infobox is concerned, I'd have to get the bridge book again and get the information out of it for the infobox. (I think at this point, I might as well just buy a copy of Climbing the Mississippi River Bridge by Bridge instead of checking it out from the library again.) --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 19:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Minnesota template

Daveswagon,

Feel free to tweak the Minnesota template. I was going through the whole list of states and territories, so I'm sure I got a little sloppy at some point. Let me know if you have any questions.

Lovelac7 01:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

MN template

I think I removed it becuase it was under 10,000 per talk. But if you want you can add it back. I dont have strong feelings either way. -Ravedave ^{(help name my baby)} 19:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not opposed to it being re-added...-Ravedave ^{(help name my baby)} 02:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you know if there are 2004 estimates for city populations? -Ravedave ^{(help name my baby)} 04:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Alexandria and St. Peter did though? Did you check all of them? If you did we shoudl probably put in an HTML comment about not inserting cities under 10K. -Ravedave ^{(help name my baby)} 04:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Daves: Current estimates from the state demographer can be obtained here: [1]. Go to Post-2000 Minnesota Population, Household and Persons Per Household Estimates and make the appropriate selections, and you will get to a tool where you can obtain populations as of 1 April 2005 for any city. Kablammo 12:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Duluth

I have conformed the Duluth page to the template, but there does not seem to be a good place to put Transportation. (I put it under Economy.) Should the template have this as a separate section?

I am having some problems with making footnotes appear. Can you take a look at what I've added to History/Today and tell me what I'm doing wrong?

I'll watch this page.

Thanks. Kablammo 23:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I fixed the reference problem. What you needed to do was add <div class="references-small"> <references /> </div> where you wanted the references to be listed (in the references section). I divided the section into "Cited references" and "General references," but some of the ones in the general section should be converted to cited ones (such as the story about the lyching).

I find that using this website citation template: {{cite web|url= |title= |accessdate= |accessmonthday= |accessyear= |author= |last= |first= |authorlink= |coauthors= |date= |year= |month= |format= |work= |publisher= |pages= |language= |archiveurl= |archivedate=}} makes creating consistant citations much easier. Just place it where you want the citation number to appear and fill it in (here's the full intructions on that). Just make sure to surround the template with <ref></ref>.

As for the city template, that does not need to be followed to the letter. I believe it's just a general guideline so that every city does not have the same sections in different orders and with different names. Adding extra sections like transportation is no problem and should not need to be included under another section. As the template says, misc sections are usually added towards the bottom. You can try looking to major articles like New York City to see how they did things.

Thanks for taking the time to bring that article into line, I posted that same message on many MN city pages and I'm not aware that anyone else has taken it into consideration.--Daveswagon 23:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the guidance. I'm not sure how much more I'll do on Duluth but as I work on those of other Mn cities I'll conform to the template. But first I have to work on the state page itself. Kablammo 23:46, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Dialect

Just so you know, dialect choice is per article, not per section of the article. That means that all of microphone gaffe should be in British English per our Manual of Style. Thanks, violet/riga (t) 16:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem. Unfortunately the only thing we can do if we can't tie a dialect down to a region for an article (like we can for, say, George W. Bush) we have to go by the first non-stub version used. In this case it's British English. violet/riga (t) 17:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Minnesota meetup

A meetup of Wikipedians in Minnesota is proposed: please stop by the discussion page if interested. Jonathunder 22:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Reminder: Meetup October 29, one o'clock, Mall of America. Jonathunder 16:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Richfield article

Hi Daveswagon. In response to your question about the city Richfield, yes, the size of the city has gotten smaller since the 1850s. All of what is current day Edina, Minnesota as well as some chunks from Minneapolis, Bloomington and the entire present day site of the Airport. However, slowly the land was annex from what was then called Richfield Township, thus the square footage of land occupying richfield today is much less than a 150 years ago. Hope this answers your question.--Gephart 07:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

City Template

D-- take a look at this suggestion.[2] I think we should use notable residents rather than notable natives for Minnesota cities. That is the practice anyway, and would prevent this from happening[3] (which I changed by changing the section title to the usage I suggest here). The editor was of course correct under the old title, but it seems silly to eliminate from the Northfield article a person as strongly associated with the community as Paul Wellstone simply because he was not born there. Let me know what you think. Thanks. Kablammo 01:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Internet censorship in mainland China

Please can you help with expanding this article? Thanks! frummer 03:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Nanking (film)

I'm currently making some edits to the references and things ... are you done editing? TIA David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 18:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm done for now.--Daveswagon 18:11, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I like your edits to the intro. I think we can remove the "rewrite" tag now, it's clearly different from the web site blurb and increasingly NPOV. David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 18:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Apologies

I was trying to fix a large series of articles that were spammed earlier today, and I walked right over your subsequent edit at Flying J. Sorry about that! Kuru ^talk 01:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Censorship in the People's Republic of China

I am afraid that's the official NPOV policy on Wikipedia. The underlying reason is that for political correctness, saying PRC or China, while excluding Hong Kong and Macao, is already implying that the two territories are not part of the PRC / China. This is the reason why English-language publications or broadcasts in the People's Republic of China (mainland China, Hong Kong and Macao), no matter governmental or not, uses mainland China whenever the two territories are excluded. The BBC, the CNN, the TIME magazine, etc., depending on contexts, also uses mainland China in their stories. — Insta ntnood 21:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see the page for that policy. I find it hard to believe that saying a law does not apply in Hong Kong and Macao somehow insinuates that these regions are not part of the PRC.--Daveswagon 22:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying that " saying a law does not apply in Hong Kong and Macao somehow insinuates that these regions are not part of the PRC ". What I said was that, speaking of PRC or China in such contexts where the two territories are actually excluded would be implying that the two territories are not part of the PRC / China. — Insta ntnood 22:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, it just seems that what you are asking for is akin the renaming Capital punishment in the United States to "Capital punishment in the 38 states of the United States that sanction capital punishment". Just because China has a convenient term for the area in which the censorship is taking place doesn't necessary mean it should be used (in my opinion).--Daveswagon 23:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

If you have experienced the changes in terminologies before and after the handover, you can tell why it is considered politically incorrect to use PRC or China in place of mainland China. — Insta ntnood 23:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I have no such experience. I'm not Chinese nor do I consider myself to be an expert on China. Like I said, I think this should be discussed on the article's talk page as apparently another user has taken issue with your changes as well.--Daveswagon 01:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

One doesn't have to be a person of Chinese ethnic orign, holding Chinese nationality, an expert in China, or a speaker of any of the Chinese languages. The other user knows well about the matter, and the same matter has been discussed at many talk pages across Wikipedia. I responded here simply because you started the conversation at my user talk page, and I didn't recognise your comment at the article's talk page until just now. As for your comparison with the capital punishment in the US article, that article is not comparable, since it discusses also, e.g., executions in states where dealth penalty had no longer been practised. — Insta ntnood 13:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of documentary films about foreign adoption of Chinese children

An editor has nominated List of documentary films about foreign adoption of Chinese children, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of documentary films about foreign adoption of Chinese children and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 22:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Westlakegeographymap.JPG

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AfD nomination of List of video games involving China

An editor has nominated List of video games involving China, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of video games involving China and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 19:49, 19 March 2007 (UTC)