User talk:Dagsorter

Welcome

Hello Dagsorter, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; they have helped improve Wikipedia and made it more informative. I hope you enjoy using Wikipedia and decide to make additional contributions. Some resources to help new Wikipedians include:

How to edit a page

Editing tutorial

Picture tutorial

How to write a great article

Article titles

Manual of Style

As a contributor to Australian articles, you may like to connect with other Australian Wikipedians through the Australian Wikipedians' notice board and take a look at the activities in WikiProject Australia and associated sub-projects.

If you are living in Australia and want to subscribe to location based notices, you can add location userboxes to your userpage.

Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ~~~~; this will automatically produce your name and the date.

If you have any questions, please see Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, try the Wikipedia:Help desk, or ask me on my talk page. Or you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Thank you for signing up! - Evad37 (talk) 03:59, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I just wanted to let you know that I undid your edit to Winthrop Avenue, as the map reference actually shows Nedlands - see also this landagte map, an official gov map which verifies the suburb boundaries. However, I hope you stick around to try and improve more articles. Cheers, Evad37 (talk) 03:59, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Evad37, I disagree with your edit. A more explicit map confirms what your map shows. Crawley is the suburb and it is in the City of Subiaco. Anyone complaining to Main Roads about the defective speed signs on this road is eventually directed to the City of Subiaco, where nothing is done. It is important that we get this detail right so people can have their complaints ignored by the correct local government authority. Regards, Dagsorter (talk) 01:13, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dagsorter, I agree that City of Subiaco is the relevant local government, and I have added that information to the article. The rest of the article is still correct, though, referring to Nedlands (the suburb), rather than City of Nedlands (the local government area). That ward map you linked to doesn't actually show the suburb boundaries, but below it, Nedlands is listed as one of the City of Subiaco's suburbs and localities. Cheers, Evad37 (talk) 03:13, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(By the way, if you are interested in Perth/WA, here's yet another link you may want to check out: WikiProject Western Australia - basically a friendly bunch of Wikipedians who try to maintain and improve articles related to WA. The project's talk page is another good place to ask questions, if you have any)

Evad37,

I don't dispute that the part of the suburb of Nedlands that is in the jurisdiction of the City of Subiaco contains part of Winthrop Avenue.

I accept that most of Winthrop Avenue fits this description. Not all of it fits this description.

It is the first sentence: "Winthrop Avenue is a major north-south road in the Perth suburb of Nedlands," with which I disagree.

The road may be "in" the suburb of Nedlands but this is not the whole truth and it is the part of the truth that will mislead.

"Winthrop Avenue is a major north-south road in the City of Subiaco suburbs of Nedlands and Crawley,"

Some might say that Winthrop Avenue forms the eastern boundary of the suburb of Nedlands and is not "in" it. This might only be semantic nit-picking and maybe it should be rejected with scorn.

However, part of this road is certainly "in" Crawley, which ever way "in" might be used. No "length" of Winthrop Avenue forms part of the boundary of Crawley although this is not true for Nedlands, city or suburb. The road is also entirely "within" the City of Subiaco in the jurisdiction sense.

"Winthrop Avenue is a major north-south road in the City of Subiaco Western Australia,"

I think that when people look up the details of a road, people want its location and who has jurisdiction. People are prepared to dig deeper to find more of its history, notable features, etc. I don't believe most people are prepared to dig deep to find location and jurisdiction.

This article is misleading on both these points.

The most notable aspect of location is not that it is the boundary of the rump of the suburb of Nedlands that is in the jurisdiction of the City of Subiaco.

It is that it forms the western boundary of Kings Park and that it connects UWA and Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital.

Given the confusing naming of suburbs and local authorities, if Nedlands must be mentioned at all it should be fully, explicitly qualified which "Nedlands" we are talking about. Merely referring to "Nedlands" or even "the suburb of Nedlands" leads people to assume the City of Nedlands and not the City of Subiaco. It seems to me to be deliberately misleading. A trap implicit in the description.

Maybe people should not make assumptions, but people do make assumptions, particularly when provided with inadequate information and the context suggests the assumption.

"Winthrop Avenue is a major north-south road in the City of Subiaco Western Australia that forms the western boundary of Kings Park,"

It may interest you to know that staff at Main Roads(WA) have made same incorrect assumption I have described, presumably confused by suburb names. (I assume)

regards, Dagsorter (talk) 03:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm... Kings Park probably should be mentioned in the lead, although I don't know if any of those suggestions are really adequate (and by the way, links in articles should be to other wikipeida articles, not external webpages - more info here). We are writing for an interstate and international audience as well, and can't assume that readers will know that the City of Subiaco is just a relatively small local government in Perth. And even for locals, have you ever heard of anything in Perth being described as "X is in City/Town/Shire of Y", rather than "X is in <suburb>"? Would you really describe, for example, Welshpool Road as a major road in the City of Canning? I'll ask some other Wikipedians from WA to comment. Evad37 (talk) 04:57, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. I only have my own opinion and it is usually the wrong one.

I have no problem with being explicit where implicit may be misleading.

I accept that I have no support.

regards, Dagsorter (talk) 08:15, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's necessary or appropriate to mention the LGA in the lead sentence, or even in the lead paragraph - unless there's some reason why that piece of information is particular important for this road. (I don't think that "who do I report road problems to?" is sufficiently important for an international encyclopaedia - otherwise we'd have to do it for every road!) It's in the infobox, if anyone is looking for the information. As for the suburb(s) mentioned in the lead sentence, given that there are only two of them, we could say "Winthrop Avenue is a major north-south road in the Perth suburb of Nedlands and Crawley ..." Do we have existing convention for roads that span multiple suburbs? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:38, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, there is nothing of international importance here. Regards Dagsorter (talk) 00:08, 13 August 2013 (UTC).[reply]

Wheatbelt WA (Common Usage)

I don't know who to address this to. I suppose I just make the corrections and see who changes them back. There are so many self contradictory links to this political/economic region that are wrong by context that it will be difficult.

wheatbelt

From the disabiguation page: "A wheat belt is an agricultural region predominantly dedicated to the growing of wheat." That is not what this page is referring to.

This article does not make it clear enough that the wheatbelt it is talking about is not the wheatbelt that is defined by the region of WA that grows wheat. There should be an article that shows the real industrial wheatbelt, not only the political one. Is there such a page?

Where wheat is grown in WA:

The WA wheatbelt extends from Northampton (north of Geraldton) in the north to Esperence in the south and as far east as Southern Cross (maybe not this year!).

It can be determined by the location of CBH receival points (except of course Kwinana and Kewdale, Albany, others?). Some CBH receival points don't receive wheat (Wandering?), but CBH publishes these data.

I will get back to this when I find time. I am not sure of copyright issues, so I suppose I will have to create a map.

Dagsorter (talk) 11:26, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dagsorter,

Your user talk page (this page, "User talk:Dagsorter") isn't a good place to bring up concerns over article content - few people are likely to come by here, unless they are trying to communicate with you. The best place is usually the article's talk - each article has one, and its specifically designated for discussing improvements. At the top of each page are some tabs, if you click on the one labelled "Talk" (when you are on the article page), it will take you that article's talk page.

Some other things you should be aware of:

Everything in Wikipedia needs to be verifiable (per WP:V), cited to reliable sources (per WP:RS), and contain no original research/synthesis (per WP:NOR) - trying to define a region via receival point locations would fall under that last one.
Wikipedia does encourage you to be bold in editing (see WP:BOLD) - your edits may sometimes get reverted if others disagree, and thereafter they should be discussion to resolve the issue (also, if you know or think your edits may be controversial, then it probably is best to have a discussion first)
If you're not sure if something is copyrighted or not, probably best to assume it is. Copyright violations aren't allowed, per WP:COPYVIO. - Evad37 (talk) 10:11, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dagsorter, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Dagsorter! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.
Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Writ Keeper (I'm a Teahouse host)

Visit the Teahouse

This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:17, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]