User talk:ChadH360

March 2010

Welcome to Wikipedia. One or more of the external links you added in this edit to the page Nespresso do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. You may wish to read the introduction to editing. Thank you. Excirial ^{(Contact me,Contribs)} 10:40, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Nespresso edit query.

Hi, I just wanted to check regarding the edits on the Nespresso page. The first edit I made contained an external link that was against the Guidelines, so I appreciate that it was reverted. The second edit I made contained the same information that I feel is very relevant to the Nespresso, but did not contain any external links or references. The reason you gave on both occasions was due to external links. Since the second edit had no external links, I would be grateful if you could let me know why the changes were reverted. Thanks in advance. Regards,

Chad (PS Fairly new to Wikipedia, so I hope I'm doing this right :) ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChadH360 (talk • contribs) 10:54, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi chad!

First and foremost i think i should point you toward the advertising policy - i know its a long article, but a short summary would be that Wikipedia isn't intended for promotion, which is therefor forbidden. The first edit(s) you made as an IP user were clearly promotional for the outpresso; Frankly i have a feeling that you are an outpresso employee or a PR respresentative of the company. If this is correct, please have a look at thethe conflict of interest policy as well.

The second edit was better, but it still does not belong in the nespresso article. It is a complimentary product made by another firm. If it is to be covered, it should be covered in its own article, or rather: It should be briefly mentioned in its parent company article, as i doubt it will qualify for a stand-alone article. Just compare it to this: There are dozens of firms making skins, coverer, ring tones and what-else for gadgets such as the IPhone, yet these are also not covered in the main IPhone article. Excirial ^{(Contact me,Contribs)} 11:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Excirial,

Thanks for coming back to me so quickly.

You are correct that I have some affiliation with Outpresso.

After placing an order for a Nespresso, I read the Wikipedia article regarding the Environmental impact. Being an avid recycler, I was quite concerned by this and therefore researched the situation regarding recycling the pods. I discovered the Outpresso based in Switzerland, but was slightly put off by ordering fom a company based outside of the UK (I think a lot of British residents may feel the same). Therefore I contacted the company and am now a UK based distributor for this product.

Whilst this could be seen as an unfair advertising opportunity, as a Nespresso user and a conscious recycler, I would have welcomed the inclusion of this information on the Nespresso site.

I do fully respect your decision, and will not attempt to make any further changes without your consent. However, I do feel that this inclusion will be a huge benefit to Nespresso users and the environment.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Best regards,

Chad —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChadH360 (talk • contribs) 11:47, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

PS I'm also curious as to how the last two current external links are any different from the external link I placed earlier! —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChadH360 (talk • contribs) 12:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Best regards,

Chad —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChadH360 (talk • contribs) 11:47, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, as you may know, Wikipedia's popularity as a website has been steadily increasing for a couple of years, and therefor it has also become a prime target for product promotion or product placement - especially due to its open nature. Because of this several clear-cut policies such as WP:SPAM and WP:COI - but don't let me bore you with a load of policies and history lessons, and get back to the Outpresso.

First and foremost, i don't think that the Outpresso will have a real chance of being included in the Nespresso article. The only reason i can think of that will warrant even a mention, is Nespresso endorsing or promoting the product as part of some environmental campaign. Generally taken products pages are solemnly about that particular product; Just imagine what would happen if a similar device came on the market, and then another, and then a third! It would have the same effect as covering all ring tone providers in the main ringtone article.

Now, what can you do? First and foremost you should realize that Wikipedia is not a great vessel for promotion. If the only intention is promotion i would say: Don't even bother. Spamlinks and spam article's are deleted rather fast, and everyone can edit article's, both positive and negative (I can remember a school which made its own article, and demanded it to be deleted after someone covered their performance based upon a government document. The article was kept). Now, if on the other hand your intention is not purely promotional, you might consider creating an article about the company that creates the device, and briefly cover the service itself in that article. This for the simple reason that standalone article's about products and services should be covered in the parent article.

Note that in order to create an article, it has to be Notable, and that notability has to be Verifiable trough reliable sources. Besides that, the article should be written in a neutral style, thus being completely non promotional. In other words: It should only cover straight hard verifiable facts and not opinions (See WP:Peacock and WP:Weasel).

Now, i understand i have been bombarding you with a load of rules and guidelines - but just keep in mind that you can just skim trough those. A lot of new article's are deleted so i think it is better to warn you in advance, then have you invest hours and hours on an article just to see it go down the drain. If you intend to write a company related article, have a look at Primavera Systems or perhaps even a stub article such as Dunlop Bremner & Company. Generally taken old article's make excellent examples on how to write new articles.

Best of luck! and PS: Could you tell me which links you are referring to? Excirial ^{(Contact me,Contribs)} 12:23, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your detailed feedback - much appreciated! As I mentioned above, I am fairly new to this end of Wikipedia.

I fully appreciate what you are saying with regards to the products - particularly if more appear. As an Outpresso distributor, it would be great to have the product shown there and a reference to the website. However, as a Nespresso user, I do feel that it is important to mention that there are products available to assist in recyclying the capsules (my first recycling attempt which involved a pair of scissors was a very messy affair!!) After all, the only reason I became affiliated with Outpresso in the first place was due to the Nespresso article on wikipedia :D.

The externa link I was referring to was for the Nexpod single use capsule. Having had a closer look at the article, I can now see the relevance of this link. However, the Caffitaly link above just seems to be a link to an online store that sells coffee machines.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Best regards,

Chad ChadH360 (talk) 13:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Ah, i gave up trying to count the amount of companies that wanted a Wikipedia article on themselves or a link in a popular article. 95 out of 100 times this ends in either the editor being blocked, a load of talk page abuse from the editor, a blacklisted link or a page creation block - for that matter i very much prefer a sensible discussion like this one. Even so, i can only give advice as to what you can do. And i fear that adding a link in the nespresso article will b futile, as another user will eventually remove it again.

As a sidenote, i had a look at the external links you mentioned and i removed the last three links as spam. As you can see, spam can always sneak in, and Wikipedia is always a work in progress :). Excirial ^{(Contact me,Contribs)} 13:35, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

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