User talk:Canadianerk/Archives/2022 1

Happy New Year, Canadianerk!

Happy New Year!

Canadianerk,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Abishe (talk) 14:39, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

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Jonah Scott

Hi, just to let you know that his year of birth is listed on the Anime News Network website. Regards Denisarona (talk) 10:42, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Denisarona Anime News Network's Encyclopedia is user-generated, and is not an acceptable source for information of any kind - including under Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Online reliable sources. Edit: If you have an ANN NEWS article stating this information, great! Please add it as a source, and add the birth year. If it's from the encyclopedia section, it cannot be utilized. Canadianerk (talk) 10:53, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

I didn't know. Not my scene!! Thanks Denisarona (talk) 10:54, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

No worries! As a new contributor who started in this area, I'm quite used to using ANN as a source at this point - so came off a bit too serious above, sorry! I tend to come off as far too serious than I intend via text. It's quite reasonable to expect people not to be aware of the nuances of such a key source for this area - perhaps something the A&M project should highlight better... Thanks for bringing it to my talk page @Denisarona - and enjoy the rest of your day/night! Canadianerk (talk) 11:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, and some questions

Thank you for the revert at Madeleine Morris. I hadn't realized BtVA wasn't reliable without the check. A minor question, particularly since going forward I won't be using it much, but where on BtVA do they list seasons? I know they include year?

Thanks for the link to WP:A&M/RS as well; I had been wondering if such a list existed. Do you know if/where there's a standard manual of style for filmographies, voice actor or otherwise? The project page guidelines at WP:FILMOGRAPHY always seem sort of incomplete to me. I've noticed a lot of anime filmographies that order entries inconsistently, but have never been quite sure how to clean them up. Darth Coracle (talk) 04:25, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

No problem, Darth Coracle - BTVA is a key resource for me, and the first I turn to - I typically add as many qualifying sources from it as possible to a fresh/rewrite of a filmography, and then try to replace them where I can as I go through other avenues of sources (usually Anime News Network)

As for BtVA - don't worry, telling seasons apart isn't really an issue on most of their listings. They've just got a really bad listing for Kaguya-sama - you were technically correct, the part you were citing *was* Season 2. They just don't have a season 1 listed, so don't have a distinction. (Season 2's dub was released before S1's)

Filmographies across the board on Wikipedia tend not to be high quality (at least on average) in my experience, even more so in anime (w. years old neglected articles... the lack of peers to compare to made it particularly difficult for me starting out. (Ex: one of my first articles, Marissa Lenti, was nominated for deletion for using primary sources, while so many other articles are left alone w. no to little, or simply disastrous sourcing - it gave me the initial impression that no sources was preferred over primary... but that's another discussion)

My approach has been to develop my own style/templates for filmography for voice actors, figuring it out and evolving it over time. As I currently have it, I have a google doc with citation templates I can just copy and paste the markup for; and I use the same table code between articles I work on. I even have a routine to find and add sources to articles.

For cleaning up existing articles, particularly with some disastrous anime filmographies, I use markup to hide the existing credits from public view, and essentially start from scratch. If the article lists "Anime Series" instead of just "Anime" and "Film", I've probably worked on it.

I haven't had much of any issues from my few months here, but my techniques/methods have certainly not been subjected to consensus - but it seems to be working. If you want a good example of an article I performed a cleanup on, Kent Williams (voice actor) would probably be a good one because of the length of the filmography. Since working on that article, I've started adding "Incomplete List" templates to filmography sections, because using cite episode/cite av media to aim for a full filmography listing is a difficult endeavour. My system isn't perfect, but it's a starting point - and a vast improvement over what it used to be (at least, I hope!)

If you want to talk more about this, perhaps even collaborate - I'd be happy to help however I can! A lot of these articles are just simply a mess, so any collaboration/steps forward is a good thing in my book. Canadianerk (talk) 21:25, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply! I've been sort of busy lately, but at some point I'd like to do more work helping to clean up filmographies, so I'd definitely be interested. About the Kent Williams link - that looks like a great template, but I have one question: are entries within each year ordered in a particular way? They're not alphabetical, at least by default, and I can't really tell if there's some underlying thing I'm missing. Darth Coracle (talk) 17:32, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

No problem! Darth Coracle - as for the order of credits, I've been basing it off whatever release dates I can find for the dub; usually included in article sources. For non ANN/Funimation Blog sources, I had to get creative - or sometimes just guessed based on context clues. I sometimes have to examine non-encyclopedic sources to retrieve a date, using a critical lens to judge whether the dates are accurate - but I always crossreference with my own knowledge + reliable sources, where I can. Where the character debuted in a Toonami broadcast is where I often have to go that route - thankfully very rare in sum.

To pull an example: Kent Williams, Funimation Blog post sources had episodes which at the very least, indicated the first appearance of a role. I do not believe they are reliable for determining how many episodes a character appears in, as some filmography articles have done - because of how inconsistent double listings for a character are. For this type of source, (Fall 2016-Fall 18 was when they did these kinds of posts - through 2019, they migrated over to the Funimation Forums and are now very hard to retrieve and they just stopped this coverage altogether... Now Crunchyroll isn't even posting cast lists for Miss Kuroitsu from the Monster Development Department at all... tl;dr - I'm pissed!) if one role debuted in episode 3, and another role in another show was episode 10, I felt it was a reasonable assumption that episode 3 released before episode 10, and ordered it accordingly. Haven't figured out how to write that in for other editors just yet, either.

In sum, the biggest problem for filmographies is if the character did not debut in episode 1, there likely isn't an independent/reliable source for it. There are reviews from time to time, but the coverage is either extremely short - or they don't name the actors at all and just generally review "the dub is okay, x lead was y" and that's it. It's a big challenge to tackle for anime dubs in particular, as ANN/other sources don't seem very eager to do their own work and reporting to cover credits for dub actors, and there's a huge backlash here, whenever tweet sources are used.

That aside - I've been trying to add the underlying rationale into articles recently. I've started using DTS and hiding it from general view, so that the article can still use rowspan, and the exact release date is included for editors. The problem is it doesn't show up in the visual editor very well - but Stephanie Young is an early attempt at implementation, so you can take a look at the latest of where it's at. Previously, I'd just keep track with tabs/memory, and sometimes just guess - writing it into the markup is better for all involved!

While I appreciate the praise for my work on the Kent Williams article, it's not the ideal "template article"-esque thing, as it doesn't include an implementation with DTS/find an alternative that doesn't conflict with rowspan - 'cause tl;dr, I don't believe I have an ideal system yet! I'm pretty pleased with the results I've been able to come up with, mostly on my own, thus far - but there's still room for improvement to ensure that the filmographies are as accurate as possible and in a consistent style. I'll have to tackle another article and apply every principle I've developed, and let you know - once everything is combined together, I think the system will be a lot better (at least, in long-term usefulness to the project). Sorry for the super-long replies, it's pretty obvious that few have shown interest in what I'm doing over here in this tiny corner-of-a-corner of Wikipedia... 😅 Canadianerk (talk) 18:12, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

No worries about the long replies, and sorry for all the questions. Definitely let me know when you do that - it'd be super interesting to see! What do you do for multi-year entries then? e.g. 2021-2022? It lists those separate from the year section, so the release date could be out of order. Also, what do you do when different seasons use different names, say Zombie Land Saga vs. Zombie Land Saga Revenge? (It's funny, I thought of the example off the top of my head since I like the show a lot, but I just noticed the Stephanie Young page has that without showing either the other year or name.) Darth Coracle (talk) 22:50, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

No apologies necessary! I haven't been including a (2017-2022) tbh; just the year the performance started. My reasoning is maintenance, running through every show to ensure accuracy - things can change at any moment. One Piece's 2007-present is only because that was how it was written when I first touched the article + no other credits currently listed in that year. I'm not too certain on what consensus/best practice says for whether a end date should be included in the year section or not, tbh... but thus far, I've been ignoring it.

As for different seasons; I was a bit torn on how to treat them. Should they be treated like a sequel film is credited, or only list the general show? I didn't have a perfect answer. So, I looked at Torchwood, a live-action series, as a comparison (a lot of its sequel seasons had subtitles) and they're listed under one credit "Torchwood", at least on some of the lead actors' filmography that I've checked. So I'm inclined to believe that they're ideally supposed to be under one. Where I've took exception is on the "Show By Rock" franchise, which appear to be a set of various spinoffs when the subtitle changes, not the same as new seasons. Canadianerk (talk) 19:54, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Macy Anne Johnson

Hello, Canadianerk. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Macy Anne Johnson, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 17:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Macy Anne Johnson

Hello, Canadianerk. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Macy Anne Johnson".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

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