User talk:Caknuck/TC&FCNSCFIBBA/Cap Anson

Cap Anson

I've smoothed out much of the rough prose and fixed a few MOS problems. The biggest thing that needs fixing as far as I can tell is providing cites for several of the claims made. If we can cite sources for the following statements, I think we'll be in good position for rapid promotion to GA:

• "...new managerial tactics, including the rotation of two star pitchers."
• "...he retroactively claimed to used some of the first "hit and run" plays."
• "Anson shares credit as an innovator of modern spring training..."
• "...a stage play starring Anson "The Runaway Colt", the White Sox were increasingly known as the Colts." (removed "The Runaway Colt" until we can reference it correctly)
• "...because of a typographical error he failed to spot, ended after the 1897 season instead of 1898..."
• "...he became a fatherly figure, and was often called "Pop"."
• "The following season, newspapers dubbed the Colts the "Orphans", as they had lost their "Pop"."
• "...one of its committee's goals was to disregard "gimmick" scoring rules, and this affected Anson's totals."

Aside from that, the article's in pretty good shape. Caknuck (talk) 19:00, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

About half of these can be sourced in Wrigleyville or Spaulding's World Tour, both of which I own. I'll try to track down the page numbers during the week, and check them off here as I do them. --Fabrictramp (talk) 22:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

And I'll check online tonight or tomorrow and see what I come up with. Caknuck (talk) 04:04, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I found an interesting bio done by the SABR folks at [1]. I'm going to incorporate some of the info from there into the article today. Also, I've updated all of the inline cites to use the {{cite web}} template. Caknuck (talk) 18:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Good thought on the SABR bio. I've always been impressed with their stuff, and I'm hitting myself on the forehead for not thinking of them. (And I've bookmarked the site now. *grin*)--Fabrictramp (talk) 19:14, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

(outdent)I've gotten all of the citation templates in line. I, however, have come across a number of inaccuracies/oversights that should be addressed.

• The articles gives his vaudeville debut as 1913, but he appeared in "A Runaway Colt" in 1895 and the capanson.com timeline has him doing theater 7 years earlier.
• The article makes no mention of the role of Al Spalding in Anson's tenure with the club.
• The capanson.com site has a bit on his personal life, which I know FAC reviewers look for on sports bios.
• The article insinuates that the Colts nickname came as a result of "A Runaway Colt", when it was in use 5 years prior.
• SABR says Anson was on a bowling team that won a national title. Several sources says he was an avid golfer. This should warrant mention.

If we integrate this stuff into the article/correct any inaccuracies, I think we're pretty close to FA territory. Caknuck (talk) 19:47, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll have some time on Wednesday to pour through Wrigleyville. I know that it has backup for the earlier vaudeville timeline and the Colts nickname. If you haven't worked up any prose for the Spaulding / Anson stuff by then, I'll see what I can come up with.

I'm also wondering about the use of the term "White Sox" at one point in the article. I've never seen that nickname used for the original NL White Stockings (aka Cubs), only for the AL team. (But I could be wrong about that).--Fabrictramp (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

At the book store today, I saw a book that made the same error(?), which I quickly discounted. Caknuck (talk) 04:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I've changed White Sox to White Stockings, as it's use is not critical to the article.--Fabrictramp (talk) 16:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I haven't been able (so far) to source "...he retroactively claimed to used some of the first "hit and run" plays." Wrigleyville credits Mike Kelly with the hit and run, but later also credits Anson. Nothing is mentioned about a retroactive claim.--Fabrictramp (talk) 14:51, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed up the Colts naming timeline a bit, and I put his stage debut as 1895. However, I think the Capanson.com timeline of a one night performance is backed up in Spaulding's World Tour, which I'll work on tomorrow as I get time. Wrigleyville claims a 1910 vaudeville debut, but I'd like to see more info on that before changing the wording -- some sources are saying vaudeville was continuous after 1910 (or 1913), while the article implies otherwise.--Fabrictramp (talk) 16:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

SABR's bio mentions the 1895 "A Runaway Colt" as a Broadway production, which may explain the 1910 date for his vaudeville debut. I'm not up on my history of American drama, but that may explain the confusion. Caknuck (talk) 22:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I've improved the vaudeville section a bit, but I've found a new date conflict. Before we started working on the article, someone had a 1921 date for the Ring Lardner play, and has music by Herman Timberg. Spaulding's World Tour has a 1916 date, doesn't mention Timberg, but does say that during the run they added Take Me Out to the Ball Game by Jack Norworth. I've exhausted my person library on this, but I do have a couple of books on order at the public library. Hopefully I'll get some time soon to work on the Spaulding influence and how the world tour soured his relationship with Hart. --Fabrictramp (talk) 16:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Gimmick scoring

I dug around online, but I could not find anything to back up the claim about the "gimmick" scoring. However, Anson's BR Bullpen write-up mentions Baseball Encyclopedia and the SABR List & Record Book. I'll try to make it the book store/library in the next few days to see if anything is mentioned there. Caknuck (talk) 23:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't back this one up, either. I'd say if we can't find something to back up the gimmick claim, we'll need to rewrite that section. --Fabrictramp (talk) 00:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to rewrite the paragraph on the Baseball Encyclopedia stats to use some more neutral language. The word "gimmick" screams out "SOURCE THIS" to me. Caknuck (talk) 02:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

 Done I found a new source on Google Books that clears up some of the stats mess. Read it over and let me know what you think. Caknuck (talk) 08:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

To do list

Here's what I think we need to tackle before siccing the wolves on our work. Please add/delete/revise as you see fit...

1. Expand the lead. One para won't be enough for GA/FA status, so we should aim for 3-4 paras that summarize the whole article.
2. Relationship with Al Spalding - most of the sources mention their close friendship, but the pre-TC&FCNSCFIBBA draft of the article never mentions him.
3. Family life - I'll tackle this tomorrow.

We're getting close to the end... Caknuck (talk) 08:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I've got quite a few notes on Spalding and personal life, too. I should be able to write a draft (or add to yours) on Thursday. I've also got the theater time line cleared up, notes on the world tour, and his relationship with Hart. --Fabrictramp (talk) 15:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I've got a draft of a couple of new sections and an expansion of the retirement section up at User:Fabrictramp/Cap Anson. Feel free to edit -- won't hurt my feelings a bit.--Fabrictramp (talk) 15:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Since you haven't said anything about the draft, I'll be bold and move it into the article. --Fabrictramp (talk) 23:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Lead

Adrian Constantine Anson (April 17 1852 – April 14 1922), known by the nicknames "Cap" (for "Captain") and "Pop", was a professional baseball player in the National Association and Major League Baseball. He played in a record twenty-seven consecutive seasons, and was regarded as one of the greatest players of his era and the first superstars of the game.

Anson spent most of his career with the Chicago White Stockings/Colts franchise, serving as the club's manager, first baseman and, later in his tenure, minority owner. He led the team to five National League pennants in the 1880s. Anson was one of baseball's first great hitters, and was the first to tally over 3,000 career hits.

His contemporary influence and prestige are regarded by historians as playing a major role in establishing the racial segregation in professional baseball that persisted until the late 1940s. On several occasions, Anson refused to take the field when his opponents roster included black players.

After retiring as a player and leaving the Colts, Anson briefly managed the New York Giants. He ran several enterprises in Chicago, including opening a billiards and bowling hall and running a semi-professional baseball team he dubbed "Anson's Colts". Anson also toured extensively on the vaudeville circuit, performing monologues and songs. Many of his business ventured failed, resulting in Anson losing his ownership stake in the Colts (by then called the Cubs) and filing for bankruptcy.

Anson was inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1939.

Looks good to me -- I can't think of a single thing to change. Go ahead and move it in if you're satisfied with it. I think that finishes off everything in our list, does it not?--Fabrictramp (talk) 22:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I've moved it over. I also reorganized the main body of the White Stockings section, flip-flopping the order of two sections and splitting off a couple of subsections. I think it has a more logical flow to it now. I think we're ready. Should we request the PR tonight? Caknuck (talk) 01:06, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I gave it a final read-through, did some minor copyediting, and I think it's as ready as it's going to be. Go for it. --Fabrictramp (talk) 01:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. Caknuck (talk) 02:16, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Peer review

I'm not sure how long the process takes. Some of those PR requests have been sitting there being ignored for a month already. How long do you want to wait before letting impatience take hold? Caknuck (talk) 00:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks like we have two ways to go: decide on a relatively short time before getting impatient (two weeks?), or picking another candidate to start work on while giving Cap a longer TBGI. Either way is fine with me.--Fabrictramp (talk) 16:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

When I put the Kinston Indians article up for peer review on August 11 of last year, it took nearly a month before someone got around to giving a really good assessment. see here I would suggest working on something else while you wait. Kinston eagle (talk) 17:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. :)--Fabrictramp (talk) 19:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

New stuff up at peer review. I fixed the page# issue, but as you know I'm not confident at fixing the prose issues. (Especially because I wrote all the offending prose! *grin*). I can get the Fleitz biography out of the library again (will take about 2 weeks to get on interlibrary loan) to make some notes on the early life section, unless you found stuff in your internet wanderings.

Any thoughts on the "See also" section? --Fabrictramp (talk) 23:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)