User talk:CSI99283

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16:01, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

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Thank you. —Paleo Neonate – 20:18, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dully noted Paleo, I appreciate the heads up.

I also wanted to ask you about the comment you made about the discussion board on 'Emir Nur" in which you said if the source is notable than it would warrant some sort of attribution.

I found 3 Doctoral level sources that attribute an ethnic background to 'Emir Nur' and one of these sources happens to be Dr Enrico Cerulli who did his PhD research in Naples Italy on Somali Customary Law and history and did field research in the country extensively, he was also the Governor of Harar in the 1940s for the government of Italy which was the location of where Emir Nur presided. Served as President of Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei in Rome.And also founded The International Conference Of Ethiopian Studies in 1959^[1]

My other sources include Anthropoligsts Kurt Wagner and Harvel Sebastian both are highly referenced scholars in their own right as well. Would you say this high level of credible sourcing is enough to include the wording of "Some sources state that he was of Marrehan-Darod extraction." in the Emir Nur Ibn muhagid Wikipedia page?

At this point there are about 4 editors that are on the same page about this change, however there is one user that is causing there to be issues where none are present.--CSI99283 (talk) 22:48, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Attempting to POV-push against community consensus and what majority of reliable sources describe is not helpful. Majority of reliable sources discussing this individual do not comment on his ethnicity, let alone attach him to a clan [1], [2]. And yet multiple competing edits have been made attaching him to various Somali clans e.g. [3], [4], [5] (..etc, all different clans). This is not helpful for a project under standard discretionary sanctions. Lastly, it is misleading to claim 4 editors accept your additions, unless you are counting four year old comments on the talk page. --Kzl55 (talk) 21:30, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is community consensus and you're pushing against the tide for reasons that are personal to you. Furthermore you are of the stance that the "majority of reliable sources don't comment on his ethnicity" and I've presented exceedingly reliable sources that have commended on his ethnicity and ascribed a very specific ethnicity onto him.

Here is one of those sources here that says quite clearly that "Emir Nur is from the Darod-Somalis Marrehan Clan" this is not from google books or some second-rate repository, but from JSTOR the leading academic database. ^[2]

It is irrelevant to bring forth other claims about ethnic background that didn't provide reference for their assertions, since those same people could have said he was from any such background and with no evidence it would mean nothing all the same.

Since I've provided high-level credibility sources that have commented on the Emir's ethnicity, it would be fair to include that since those are scholarly claims and not from random-Wikipedia vandals. Are you now understanding my POV?

I've come across no other scholars ascribing a different ethnic group to the Emir which would show that this is uncontested within Academia. If you don't want it to be an airtight claim, you could say "Some sources state that he was of Marrehan-Darod extraction." and if you can find sources that contradict this view, you can alter it. That is what fair consensus would mean, not all-or-nothing.--CSI99283 (talk) 22:48, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Limited no. of sources = minority view point per Wikipedia guidelines, I am running out of ways of repeating the same statement. What you presented are minor in-passing mentions (including a footnote) in a very limited number of sources, the vast majority of reliable sources describing this individual do not comment on ethnicity. Addition of minority view points would thus be undue as explained by multiple editors on Theories Noticeboard. --Kzl55 (talk) 23:42, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so if I present at least 3 academic sources that clearly state he is Marehan Darod, will you accept a tentative mention and leave it be? I'm not speaking about footnotes but actual sources. The only sources that mention his ethnicity state he is Somali Marehan Darod. I'll be compiling them and placing them in the discussion board. I would believe that would be enough for a passing statement and I'm willing to ask whoever runs this place. I'll be bringing these sources to the other discussion pages. Sade Tan (talk) 00:09, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I stand by my previous comment at FTN but that was more general information than a vote, I don't intend to participate more there but the article's talk page is the right place to seek consensus. More general information: it is correct that it may be possible to mention a minority hypothesis with attribution. It depends on factors like: is it from a prominent scholar in the field? Is it controversial? If so, are there other sources to put it in context (i.e. criticism, support or other general mentions of it)? —Paleo Neonate – 10:34, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A quick search on Google Books yields +30 pages of results for Nur ibn Mujahid [6], and yet not a single one of them mentions this ethnic clan claim [7]. I also stand by my previous comments, three citations would still be a minority view point if the overwhelming majority of reliable sources discussing this topic are not commenting on his ethnicity. Lastly, off-Wikipedia canvassing will not be tolerated, you can not brute-force minority view points by attempting to game the system. Both CSI99283 and Sade Tan were reported at ANI Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Off-Wikipedia_canvassing_on_Horn_of_Africa_topics. --Kzl55 (talk) 11:04, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Kzl55 (talk) 10:53, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

^ Gupta, Tamarat (1959–1991). THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE OF ETHIOPIAN STUDIES (Journal of Ethiopian Studies ed.). p. 29-142.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: date format (link)
^ https://www.jstor.org/stable/43581078?seq=5#metadata_info_tab_contents

[1] Gupta, Tamarat (1959–1991). THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE OF ETHIOPIAN STUDIES (Journal of Ethiopian Studies ed.). p. 29-142.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: date format (link)

[2] ttps://www.jstor.org/stable/43581078?seq=5#metadata_info_tab_contents

[1]

[2]