User talk:Bob rulz/Archive 2

Comment

What do you think of my recent edits to Salt Lake City? 144.35.254.12 00:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Cyclone WikiProject

Hey, I noticed you signed up for the project (seemed odd for you to have taken so long to get round to it, seeing your interest). Anyway, you signed up just after the release of the first newsletter in the spam me section. The link to the current edition is this: Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Newsletter - if you want to have it here just subst it.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, there was no real point to you being a member in the off-season before the newsletter. I just sent this message as a heads up to the fact the first one is available.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History of Utah

I have restored the images again -- as I am discussing the native peoples of Utah, I am discussing the environment in which they lived and worked. I am selecting existing images and changing the captions to reflect their relevance. For example -- the wetlands of Northern Utah are a prime example of the type of environment that the Desert Archaic people chose to live in. Since we can't have pictures of those people -- their homelands seem like the next best bet. So please be patient. In time, we will weed out the ones that are truly not relevant. Thank you. WBardwin 06:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you think you can find some pictures of itmes related to these prehistoric people, I would love to have them. Images of artifacts are usually copyrighted, unless they are held on government web sites. And many of the early people and the Shoshoneans left less photogenic material remains. I think there are probably too many pics in this section (and a purge will happen) but a wetland pic is quite important as the average reader doesn't think about wetlands in Utah and their importance to a lithic culture. Native people contacted by Europeans are also poorly represented in photographs, as the process itself changed their cultural presentation.

But -- regarding the overall article, I was appalled last month to find there was absolutely no History of Utah article. So, I am cutting and pasting one together as best I can. I hope there will be a whole series of articles, by time period, eventually. Hopefully, others like you will notice and perhaps contribute. If you don't like to write, but would like to help -- how about giving your opinion on the talk page about an appropriate outline? or look for references or check facts? Thanks for your interest. We Utahns need to stick together. Best wishes. WBardwin 07:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I'm a historian and archaeologist -- no doubt about it. But I do a lot of biographical information as well, and I've lived in northern Utah for a long time. My Wiki time goes up and down -- I have varying family and work responsibilities. I also find that I work in a particular area furiously and then get distracted for awhile. Sometimes that's a good thing, because my work looks much better when I edit mercilessly after letting it cool for a while.

Geography of Utah would be a challenge. Such a wide variety of zones, geology and ecosystems. I don't have any books on my shelves specifically on Geography, but I know some of my history books have at least a chapter. I've spent time in northern Utah and extreme southeastern Utah, and did some grad work on land use and settlement patterns in the Uintah Basin, so I could probably help most in those areas. Create the article, and I'm sure I'll watch it and dabble if nothing else. Best.......WBardwin 08:33, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gainesville - estimates

Hi,

Actually, Census figures are estimates. It's true that the census was blocked from using statistical sampling for reapportionment data, but still, you don't actually think the census bureau tracks down every single person in America, do you? The 2000 census response rate was about 67% - the highest it's been in a while. You can find out more detailes about census methodology at their website.

I didn't revert your edited because it's a minor point and because "reports" is accurate just as "estimates" is. but just sending you this as an FYI.

Cheers, Chicken Soda

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Sci Fi Channel (United States) programs

Ello there, Arkansas Traveller.. I'd rather like for you to give your input on the future of List of Sci Fi Channel (United States) programs since it may invariably suffer the same fate as Other films aired on The SciFi Channel, so please do so if time permits. It's a rather pertinant piece of information concerning the Sci Fi Channel, and its demise will prolly compromise the article quite alot. DrWho42 06:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:User starcraft

FYI, Template:User starcraft on your userpage is a dead link. Not sure if it was moved or just deleted. Didn't want to mess with your page in case I screwed things up. --Polkapunk 20:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Starcraft: Ghost

See the discussion on the talk page. Indefinitely postponed is just a euphemism for cancelled. If it's not in development, it can't be finished. Talkign about it like it will be finished is against crystal ball policies. Blizzard also called Warcraft Adventures is indefinitely postponed. Ace of Sevens 05:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They could start it back up and finish it, but the same is true of most cancelled games. The point is there are no current verifiable plans to do so. You can't base articles on what could happen. That's speculation and falls under WP:NOT. Ace of Sevens 05:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Warlords

Thanks for restoring Pronto's well-meant but excessive deletions from the Warlords article. I actually took exception to the same thing, and started writing a message on his talk page where I suggested the very same things that you did, but got bogged down and didn't finish before your edits (due in part to the fact that I'm still intimidated by admins.)

So, thanks. --Kizor 20:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Provo, Utah

FYI, both sets of numbers are estimates. The numbers I was using were projections made from the 2000 data found at List of cities in Utah (by population). I have corrected where I can.

Also FYI, reverting a revert is generally considered poor Wikipedia:Wikiquette (WP:1RR). I understand *now* that you were, in fact, correct, but I was getting my data from another wikipedia page with "less useful" data. That page needs to be corrected.

Thanks for playing, and have fun in Wikipedia! McKay 07:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, the data in the first column of List of cities in Utah (by population) are projections for the 2005 population of Utah. The data on that page comes from this report [1] This report uses the 2000 census data as a base, and projects forward to 2050.

Also as I understand it, the numbers you were quoting for West Valley City and Provo (the ones that puts Provo a little higher than WVC) come from the census 2005 estimates, which are *not* projections. Those numbers come from [2]. So I think that the Utah cities list needs to be changed to reflect the more up-to-date data.

No 1RR isn't a rule, but merely a guideleine of Wikiquette. The edit, I was reverting diff was unreferenced, and I changed the data to data that I could find a reference for [3].McKay 17:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hooray!

I see that the 2003 Utah snowstorm article was created. Hooray (again)! Remember those two supercells we had in Salt Lake and Provo (if you live in one those areas)? Should there be an article about that, because I heard that Provo had around $13 million in damage, and the Salt Lake East Bench was hit pretty hard, too. I dunno, there's lots of supercells aroud the country, and making articles for each one seems pretty stupid, but it's just that we don't see supercells that often. What do you think? The Runescape Junkie 20:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you could at least put maybe a subpage on your page, like you did with the '03 Snowstorm? Just a suggestion... Cheers! The Runescape Junkie 18:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Double Hooray! I'll be sure to check the subpage out. Cheers!The Runescape Junkie 17:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Checked it out, and I really liked it! Can't wait to see more great things you do to Wikipedia Articles, especially the Utah related ones! Cheers! The Runescape Junkie 18:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Question: how do you create a subpage? My page is getting over 30KB, so I could use one. Oh, and what's the AfD? Cheers! The Runescape Junkie 20:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks for all the help. Cheers! The Runescape Junkie 23:09, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Newsletter

OK, thats fine. I'll try and remember that when I deliver your copy, if you add a sentence on the spam list I might remember more easily. When I send you yours, do you only want the latest version on the subpage? And you don't need to worry about crediting me that much (though I do appreciate it). :)--Nilfanion (talk) 13:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I assume you would probably notice anyway but number 3 is there. :P--Nilfanion (talk) 00:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final state highway naming conventions debate

Bob rulz, your participation is welcome in the Wikipedia:State route naming conventions poll. Please give your input as to the process by 23:59 UTC on August 8.

Regards, Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 22:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Salt Lake References

I'm still around, just not as often :(

I believe I added references at the bottom of the article siting all my sources. There were a couple of history books and such. In fact, I think I started the references section. I'll have to ask Mike (Cool Hand Luke) as I know him in RL. Does that help?

—Jo nMo ore 20:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Public" Predictions on Wikipedia

Hi there. I remember in high school and college that I used to make forecasts about hurricane seasons, which storms would hit land, how far we'd get down the list, etcetera, etcetera based on pure speculation, and nothing more. The difference between then and now is that at that point, only a handful of people knew I had made such a prediction on the planet and we had it scribbed on a page of some obscure notebook in our own posession that few others were likely to see. Having this type of speculation on the discussion page is much more visible because anyone on the internet can read it, therefore it is "public" for consumption by anyone with an internet connection. Now that Gary Padgett has highlighted wikipedia in his widely-dispersed monthly tropical cyclone summaries, don't be surprised if others use a similar argument or say something similar. If you want to e-mail about this topic, I can send you my e-mail and we can correspond about how these kinds of forecast have been perceived in the past by TPC/NHC (as long as my e-mail address from your personal page is deleted soon afterwards.) It is becoming increasingly likely that someone at NHC is going to view that discussion page, if it hasn't happenned already.

Don't consider this the "National Weather Service" line on the topic just because I'm part of it, and this is not a personal attack of any sort. I just am under the impression that wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a bulletin board, and that the discussion pages are merely about fine points of detail concerning the article itself, not about making predictions per se. In a religious sense, like the Jewish Tanach, not France's Nostradamus. If my impression is wrong, show me the wikipedia guidleline that spells out predictions connected to its articles, and I'll shut up. There are other internet/weather discussion boards where predictions can be made and shared, without attaching it to an online encyclopedia. I'd hate to squelch your enthusiasm for meteorology...I still have it myself, even at 33 and after 13 years in the NWS. =) Thegreatdr 17:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A few Great Salt Lake requests

From Talk:Great Salt Lake:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the GSL near where the Mormons went in 1800-something? I think that's notable enough to be included somewhere. Insane99 19:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I responded that he was correct, but that I was unsure how to add that to the article. Since you have worked extensively on the Salt Lake City article, I wonder if you might have any input as to how we should phrase this info and where it should be added?

Second, I wonder if you could possibly whip up some sort of a lake effect section, subsection, or whatever for this article? I ask because you mentioned this in the past and I have exhausted myself somewhat working on this article. Here is a Deseret News source that might be useful, if you have the time: Lake has great impact on storms, weather

Lastly, thank you for copy editing this article. I plan to submit it for peer review once it reaches GA status, but before that, I wonder if you have any input on how to improve the article? As a part of this, could you look over and maybe edit the to do list I created awhile back? Currently it mostly deals with what needs to be added, and most of that (perhaps all) was added by me, which makes me a bit uncomfortable as I shouldn't be the only one defining goals. --Lethargy 04:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. :) --Lethargy 02:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the lake effect sentence from the lead because it looked a bit tacky hanging on the end of the opening paragraph. The source for it was: Warm water helps create Great Lakes snowstorms if you need to use it. I'm wondering, in your opinion does lake effect deserves its own paragraph in the lead section, or just a sentence that doesn't look like I tacked it on as an afterthought? --Lethargy 22:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think I agree, but I haven't really figured out how or where to integrate it in the lead. For now I'll just hold off on working it back in until the section is finished. Again, thank you for being willing to help, the amount of stuff that needs to be written to make this featured has me kind of swamped, so I appreciate any help or criticism I can get. --Lethargy 03:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weather ideas

What ideas do you have? That would be great to see! I've been slowly working on individual pages but not so much at the broad level. (Also it tends to get side-tracked as hurricanes take over - after all we are entering the peak of hurricane season) CrazyC83 22:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had been starting to work on an article List of SPC High Risk days and an activity calendar for 2006 (and previous years) based on their risk levels. I am waiting until October or so before I get to winter-related events. CrazyC83 22:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Weather had already existed by someone else and was never affiliated. Good idea with all those, and US Weather of 2006 is definitely something that should be created too. I'm also trying to bring up archives to work backward, but need to find opportunities to do so. The assessment scale should be initiated, definitely. CrazyC83 04:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If the owner agrees, then go ahead! Feel free to create articles for anything you can think of as well! CrazyC83 05:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent article! It should be published now I think. CrazyC83 19:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Winter 06-07

Yes, premature I know. However, I was thinking if there was a major event in September or October, it is better to have it ready (it does occasionally happen in the higher Plains). It won't be well organized until October most likely.

I feel they should run from July 1 to June 30 because the vast majority of people visiting here are from the Northern Hemisphere, and there are few areas in the Southern Hemisphere (save Antarctica and nothing is notable there except for record cold) that heavy snow is worthy of mention. It will resemble the Tornadoes of 2006 page (speaking of which, I have the shell for the 2005 article underway, and will add more in the next few weeks). CrazyC83 05:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Old storms

Good luck to trying to raise the activity of the Meteorology project, its unfortunate that its inactive like it is. One of the biggest problems is that a much higher proportion of articles in the wider project should be about meteorological phenomena as opposed to individual events. The TC project has a major problem with its core as well and it is much more active. For information on specific storms, the NCDC database should be extemely useful. For example, there is this on the F5 tornado of the 1999 Oklahoma tornado outbreak.--Nilfanion (talk) 17:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

River Jordan

Would you have preferred if I had left the link incorrect as it was? I wasn't suggesting the river didn't exist which is why I didn't delete the reference completely. Please don't leave comments as to what I "at least" could have done, really its up to me how much time I spend on wikipedia and at least me removing the incorrect link presumably brought the matter to your attention through your watchlist.--Lucifer(sc) 13:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review

Oops, I was using Firefox's Find feature, but I was not searching for the hyphenated lake-effect, so I missed that in the climate section. Also, I had searched for Great Salt Lake, but that wasn't mentioned in the same paragraph as the lake-effect, so I missed it with both searches. As I said, it was a brief glance. I'll look over it more thoroughly now that I have had some sleep. :) --Lethargy 22:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I think what is already mentioned on lake-effect is probably sufficient, although perhaps we could squeeze in a link to that severe snowstorm from 2003 (wherever that page is). As for footnotes, everything I have learned came from Wikipedia:Footnotes and the Mozilla Firefox article, which generally has a link to a webpage followed by a period, then the name of the source in italics and a period (e.g Great Salt Lake, Utah. U.S. Geological Survey.), but when I source a newspaper article I leave the author unitalicized (which I don't remember where I found):Utah Lake is overrun with carp. Sara Israelsen, Deseret Morning News. As for the census numbers, I just think it is necessary to provide a source for them, which I am not sure where to find. --Lethargy 23:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NFL predictions

Nice work! Those predictions seem reasonable, but I bet the Texans aren't that bad this year they were last year. I think they will go for 9-7 this year (:P).In the AFC South, the Titans will be the worst team with 2-14 (damn Vince Young). The Chiefs didn't look good vs. the Texans either, however it's just preseason, so I won't make any predictions here. (I guess my predictions will be wrong too.) We'll see! -- WmE 22:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I like the Broncos too and I predict a, let's say, 16-0 season...;). Well I also think that they will win the super Bowl, but I have no idea, which team they will beat there. P.S. I'm looking forward to the next preseason game. Texans vs. Broncos. -- WmE 09:42, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Chris

[4] Please come to #wiki-hurricanes on irc.freenode.net so we can settle on an agreement. – Ch acor 01:32, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, are you having problems getting in? – Ch acor 01:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's weird, myself, AySz, Tito, Mike H, Hink and Elliskev are all here. Could you try joining #wiki-hurricanes on asimov.freenode.net then? Get Hello to do so too, please? – Ch acor 01:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Could you get all of them to close their tabs/windows, reopen a new one and join server asimov.freenode.net - that would work. – Ch acor 01:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Utah State Highway WikiProject?

Aren't you still part of it? That's what it says on the Project Page, but not on your userpage. Just wondering... Cheers! The RSJ - ^SPEAK 18:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Heh heh, no wonder, there's only four people in it, and one of them doesn't even live in Utah.... Cheers! The RSJ - ^SPEAK 22:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Salt Lake City Tornado

Since you are the best weather person in WikiProject Utah, I wonder if you could help me expand and improve the Salt Lake City Tornado article? I have written up what I feel are the first things we need to improve on the talk page, if you want to look over those and add any input.

Oh, and I think the Salt Lake City article looks pretty good. I see a few problems with wording and POV (which I might elaborate more on when I look over the article again), but with a little work and a few more citations, I think we can submit this at FAC with a pretty good chance of passing, or at least we might receive input on things we can fix quickly enough to pass. If it becomes too daunting, we could always submit it at the Good Article Collaboration of the week. --Lethargy 21:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully wikipedia's servers will stop giving me errors and allow me to respond :)

I think the 2006 weather stuff looks pretty good, I wouldn't mind seeing it as an article.
- You may be able to expand individual months by adding a paragraph comparing it with average years and recent years, such as "blah was relatively dry compared to previous years, with blah amount of snow compared to blah average. Early in the month temperatures were lower than those in 2005, but later days had risen above average". Of course it wouldn't look so bad as something I whipped up under the influence of sunburn and headache.
- The only other problem is that the references aren't footnotes, which seem to be preferred, but that is a minor issue.
- I love that you included information on the status of the drought, I enjoy tracking that or at least I would enjoy it if I knew where I could find more information. Are there other articles like this one for previous years, or articles covering the "recent" drought?
The lake-effect stuff looks great, now the article feels relatively complete, although not totally comprehensive. The main thing I still need to add is Legacy Highway info. I wrote a report on it for eighth-grade science years ago, but I seem to have forgotten everything about it so I guess I need to read up on the current situation.

--Lethargy 23:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits at Running back

Hello. I'm not sure that I agree that your removal of names was a good idea. Rather than revert you unilaterally, I have started a discussion at the talk page. Please add your thoughts there when you get a chance. --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 11:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I appreciate you starting a proposal. --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 18:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Smile

The RSJ - ^SPEAK has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

I'm giving these messages to everyone I know, and it's not the wrong kind of WikiLove (lol)... Cheers!

UntraveledRoad

Hi Bob,

You mentioned in the Saint George talk page that you had trouble accessing UntraveledRoad. I have been curious if you were still having trouble with it.

Thanks, Kelvin Smith http://www.UntraveledRoad.com

Bob, You must be using Comcast. They block UntraveledRoad. I suppose they thought it was too high a bandwidth. If you try it somewhere else, it should work.

Kelvin

Project tagging

I've been tagging quite a few for their levels of importance and classification. It's good that we can get started somewhere and figure out where we are now...although the peak of hurricane season is not when the focus is on these other things. CrazyC83 04:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

AfD Template on Utah English Page...

I nominated the article for deletion. Sorry for the simple question, but how do I put the Deletion Template on the page? Sorry for using up space on your page and cheers! The RSJ - ^SPEAK_{The RSJ at the RS Wiki} 04:58, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, anyways. Cheers! The RSJ - ^SPEAK_{The RSJ at the RS Wiki} 17:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Utah English AfD

Since you actually live in Utah, what do you think? Is Utah English (or Utahnics) a real dialect of English? Just curious (I realize I take too much space on your user talk page, sorry 'bout this). Cheers! •The RSJ• ^{(Main Hub - Rants)} 19:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject South Park

I have thought of creating a WikiProject for South Park since it is now near its' 10th anniversary and has more articles than ever. I feel we could all do the following things through this project:

Cleanup any short/poorly written/unformatted articles
Merge/lengthen the many character articles
Improve the South Park main page

I have seen your South Park fan template and wondered if you were interested in joining. If so reply to my talk page and I'll get back to you as quick as I can. Thanks, Mr. Garrison

Re: Salt Lake City

Looking over what was reverted:

"The streets are known for being wide and spacious"

This one bothers me, because it isn't really possible to verify that they are "known" for this, but we can prove that the original settlers wanted them to be wide. I prefer focusing on the facts, rather than public perceptions.

"He has also been accused of abusive and demanding working conditions by former staffers"

If there are too many to name specifically, a citation for this info would suffice. I am unfamiliar with this incident, so I would like to have a link to an article I could read on this topic. This one probably didn't need the {{who}} tag, but it does need {{fact}}. A bit of a brain fart (I hate that term) on my part.

"...and the primary Fourth of July fireworks in the city."

The reason I removed "primary" was because I wasn't sure we could actually verify this, although I don't have a huge problem with this being reverted.

I see your point on the excessive citation needed tags, but I'm not sure if this will pass FAC without a few more citations. The info that is too difficult to verify could just be removed, if it is not incredibly important. I get the impression that much of the info here was written before WP started requiring inline citations, so we have to dig them up now. Also, I have noticed that anons tend to add info without supporting citations, but when I add a request to verify it, the request is ignored.

here is an explanation of a few of the citation needed tags:

"There is about a fourteen to fifteen minute of arc variation of the grid from true north."

I have never heard this before, and I can't say if it is true or not. Where did this come from?

"most counties in Indiana use a similar scheme in designating county roads"

We don't necessarily need to have this comparison, and I couldn't find a source online.

"Many of the Pacific Islanders are members of the LDS Church."

This one is particularly problematic, because you run into the "how many is many" arguments, and no reference was provided.

"Councilors are elected under specific issues and are usually well-known."

What does "elected under specific issues" mean, and are they actually well-known? This sounds like someone who lives here has this impression, but it might not be verifiable (original research). It could probably be removed without a problem.

"Party platforms are centered on education, economic development, and transportation."

I have no idea where that came from. Original research?

"He is supportive of same-sex marriage, the Kyoto Treaty, transit-oriented urban planning, alternative energy sources, and the relaxation of Utah state liquor laws."

I know he supports same-sex marriage and the relaxation of liquor laws, but the rest is news to me. People who don't live in Utah would probably require a citation or two to verify what he supports.

"...and Israel's ambassador to the United States opened a cultural center."

Never heard about this, and I couldn't find anything about it online. --Lethargy 01:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You said: Secondly, but not least, is your almost dictatorial removal of supposed weasel words and peacock terms (a term which I didn't know about until today). Certainly the inclusion of most of what you removed is not detrimental to the encyclopedia. Wikipedia has recently come under an insane number of rules and regulations to the point of you need citations for everything and the inclusion of even one weasel word or peacock term is detrimental to the encyclopedia, almost to the point of violating the standards of the English language. (Are there better terms to replace these weasel words with? Certainly the removal of some of these not only is detrimental to the writing quality, but are not even improving the encyclopedia. The inclusion of some weasel words is necessary to properly explain and display that piece of information.)

- It was the "well-known" that bothered me. I have no way to verify if it is well-known that he supports one thing or another, it is better to just state what he supports. Like I said above, I prefer focusing on the facts, rather than public perceptions. --Lethargy 01:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For example, I don't think that citations are needed for what Rocky Anderson supports and doesn't support. It's hard to find citations on that, but it just doesn't really seem like something that would need verification.

I know, I tried to find some. I'll leave it up to you whether it needs verification or not.

...although to be fair, outside of Utah, the Polynesian Islands have the highest rate of LDS membership

I have seen this as well, but finding sources for the Utah numbers was difficult. Seems like more OR to me, although it is probably true.

Surely you've heard about the education and transportation problems in the city?

I have. The education problem is a more statewide problem than just SLC, but that is irrelevant. I would prefer to make it easy to verify this info for those who don't live here.

Perhaps I'm just a little more lenient with the rules

And I'm probably a little too strict, plus I am fairly new. Together, I guess we are pretty close to the mark. :) --Lethargy 02:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Denver Broncos

Why did you take out ravens-broncos statistics?

Sugar House area

Stupid question completely unrelated to Wikipedia: I notice that on your user page you say you are from Sugar House, so I wonder if you could identify an area I drove through for drivers ed. IIRC the instructor called it Garden something or other, the road was pretty steep and twisty, all of the front yards were likewise steep, and there were a lot of trees. I think it is either in or near Sugar House, and was a pleasant enough drive that I'd like to find it again. --Lethargy 19:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it was something grove, or grove something... anyway, I'll check out that area the next time I am near it (in other words, the next time I go to Training Table or Sugar House Park).

Taichung City

I am new on WikiProject Cities. I have added considerable content to the first city I am working on, which happens to be the city of my residence, Taichung City. Would you mind taking a few minutes to look it over and leave comments on how you think I can make it better to bring it up to WikiProject Cities standards in a section of the discussion page for the city’s article page that I have set up.

Thank you. Ludahai 03:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit to Wasatch Range

Your recent edit to Wasatch Range (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // AntiVandalBot 02:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't vandalism....but oh well. Bots can't hear me. bob rulz 02:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Questions/Wikieducation

Hi, Bob rulz/Jason. I'm moabalan, new to Wikipedia and kind of stumbling around to learn the way things are done. I'm not even sure that I can contact you this way, so I'm going to quit now. If it looks like there will be communication, I'll go on.

Okay. You removed a comment I made on the book, Hiking the Wasatch, after apparently the vandalism bot pointed it out. I see that some time ago, the bot earmarked one of your writings, but you note that "it wasn't vandalism." I'm new enough I don't know all that well what vandalism is, but I quickly read a wiki discussion that seemed to include the intent of purposefully inserting untrue info, or removing good info.

It seems obvious that wiki is created to only allow things that someone, somewhere has put down in writing (no original research). Nothing creative, just cite the literature. I think I got that yesterday. I think it means I'm a hell of a lot less excited about Wiki than I was, because my creative writing means much to me, and Wikipedia isn't a place for everybody to opine about things, no matter how well founded the opinions.

Let's go back to my note on Hiking the Wasatch. I don't make money from it. The author isn't my friend. I haven't met him. I think I can do a better job of keeping personal opinion out of what I write next. But there isn't a large body of published information about hiking in the Wasatch, and nobody has spent as much time as this author on the subject of hiking around Salt Lake City. Doesn't it serve a good purpose to point that out in an article on the Wasatch?

Okay. Enough for now. I appreciate any response.

Learning Wiki/advertising

Moabalan back again. Would be good if you read the "Questions" post below before this one. I just discovered my own talk page. I see that there's a note about advertising. Perhaps you put it there. I don't mind, but I haven't written anything here to promote my own work. I think that, especially in an encyclopedia built up bit by bit by amateurs, bibliographical information is very valuable. One can tell at a glance that Wiki doesn't tell us much about the Wasatch Mountains. Once I understand better what a stub is, I'll know whether to designate it as a stub. I once considered writing a book on these mountains; we could do well with a properly done article here that was at least three pages.

One of the most useful things an article can do is to tell me where I can go to get better, longer treatment of the subject. Does Wikipedia have any specific policy on commenting on the content and value of the references we give? The bias appears to be against it, or is it just that people tend not to do it? Thanks.

Moablan question three

Want to tell me why my next note didn't end up as regular text here?

Broncos

Why do you feel only your story of the Broncos should be told? If someone already has a game posted, edit it for POV or errors, but why are you totally rewriting it?

Utah State Route WikiProject (Again)?

Shouldn't the UT SR WP be under your list of WikiProjects? I wanted to add that, but I wasn't sure if I was allowed to. Thanks - The RSJ ^¿Qué? 00:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, will do. Thanks - The RSJ ^¿Qué? 22:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]