User talk:Ben MacDui/Archive 15

Olaf

Hi MacDui. Thanks a lot for the review. I'm looking for more info on Clyde islands in the 12th/13th centuries. This is totally unrelated, but it might be of use for you: a couple days ago through a Google search I came across a glitch in the security of the ODNB site. Find a bio you're interested in the index here. For example, the bio of John Lorne Campbell (of Canna) is http://www.oxforddnb.com/index/59/101059511/. On that particular page notice the link: http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/ref:odnb/59511? Take the last number (59511) and place it at the end of the last slash in this link: http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/printable/ (so it looks like: http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/printable/59511). That link should give you the full bio. Dunno how long it'll last, or how long it's been open like this.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 06:26, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are very welcome - good luck with the GAN - and thanks for the tip. Ben Mac Dui 11:08, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cara

Hi MacDui,

Thanks for your welcome message and comments on providing reliable sources.

I would claim to be a reliable source of info regarding Cara - being one of the Teggins that have called the island home for the last 40 years. I would love to have the time to learn more about references and sources in Wiki world. One day.

The goat population is thriving (far too many), I've never heard anything about the Broonie coming to get you - he's always charicterised as a benign spirit.

My statement about the Fue is correct and based on the land registry entry (and register of sasines). We don't have a lease of the island.

There's a lot more info I could add, but we prefer to keep a low profile. Have you ever been there?

Regards

Thomas Teggin

Thomas - thanks for contacting me. The position you find yourself in is by no means unique but doubtless rather peculiar from your point of view - you should take a look at the Wikipedia:Truth essay which outlines the problem. I have no doubt at all that your are both correct in your statements and that you are who you say you are, but Wikipedia takes steps to protect itself from unverifiable statements from unknown persons - and you must then produce some reliable evidence for your assertions. You should also take a look at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest - it is not in any way a reason for you to avoid editing the Cara article, but you should be aware of its contents in case you come across one of our more brusque editors.

What to do? If you have a copy of the feu or access to the relevant register that would confirm your statements, you could use them as references. If this were a high profile article this might not work but I think in this case it would be reasonable. Adding references is a little tricky to get the hang of, but there is one in the history section. If you type something like <ref>Feu land at Teggin's Farm, Cara, Argyll. Register of Sasines No 1234. Dated 12 June 1974.</ref> that might do the trick. Alternatively you could direct me to a web reference or email something to me if you prefer and I'll do it.

Sadly I have not been to Cara, but I have been to Gigha and spent some time looking for the brownie through my binoculars. You are a lucky man. If the Wikipedia bug begins to bite you might be interested in the Scottish Islands' project. Good luck and just let me know if you need anything else. Ben Mac Dui 16:47, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mental Illness and Adminship

I noticed that (although it's striked through now), you considered opposing RE's adminship bid on the grounds that they suffer from auditory hallucinations. For future consideration, may I point you here? Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 17:26, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this. Candidates at RfA must expect difficult questions and dealing with people who suspect you of mental instability is unlikely to be a sysop's biggest challenge as you are surely aware. My question was genuine, but more aimed at providing the candidate with a challenge ( I don't like to see wholly unopposed RfAs - it's not good for an admin candidate's humility levels) than serious doubts on my part that he was in danger of running amok. I am not a mental health expert, but if an editor admits to having a potentially serious mental health issue, states that it does not affect their abilities to contribute to the project (in whatever way) and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, I for one would not hold that against them at all. Ben Mac Dui 17:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User:B41joss

Hey Ben, You recently deleted my page User:B41joss. I would like the opportunity to have the text back and rework it so that it no longer contains unambiguous advertising.

thank you, B41joss (talk) 14:46, 15 August 2011 (UTC)B41joss[reply]

The text is below. I will delete it after 3 days, or on confirmation that you have copied it. Please do not attempt to recreate it on Wikipedia until it is in a suitable state to do so.Regards, Ben Mac Dui 16:45, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I may be away for a few days - removing text. It will still be there in the history if you have not retrieved it. Ben Mac Dui 17:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

TFLS of Timeline of prehistoric Scotland

Hi! Since you are the main author of that list, I wanted to let you know that I reviewed its TFL submission here. Maybe you could have a look at it and address those issues to make it ready for the main page. bamse (talk) 17:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My Sandbox

Did you read the top of my sandbox before deleting it? It was for me TESTING the deletion templates, please restore it --ChristianandJericho 11:00, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I did and I have. Please don't save speedy templates unless you intend for the page to be deleted. Ben Mac Dui 11:12, 11 September 2011 (UTC) PS If you need help in saving the wording of a template for whatever reason, as opposed to the template itself, let me know.[reply]

Ballochroy

Dear MacDui, thanks for contacting me re my post, as you can tell I am a novice to this site, however I am well-intentioned and wish to contribute in the spirit of this effort "to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally" - in this regard, my wish is to become more effective and to learn to use this format better, as a first time user it does seem counter-intuitive and I apologise for my seeming awkwardness. Dreamlucca 03:24, 14 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreamlucca (talk • contribs)

No peacocks here

Nice bit of referencing! ;) Mais oui! (talk) 19:19, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indian peafowl call

Problems playing this file? See media help.

My pleasure. These clean-up tags are just a nuisance in my experience - if someone can't be bothered to fix something that they think is below par it's not clear why anyone else would necessarily volunteer to do so. Ben Mac Dui 07:51, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Becksguy has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. You can spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks for your note of appreciation for trying something new as a compromise at James VI & I.

To spread the goodness of cookies, you can add {{subst:Cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat this cookie on the giver's talk page with {{subst:munch}}!

Not sure what I have done to deserve this generosity but you are very welcome. (I trust there isn't a food mountain at WikiProject Food and drink!). Cheers, Ben Mac Dui 07:58, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ban MacDui, your being original with the thumb is inspiring. Thanks. Lotje ツ (talk) 19:39, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I couldn't resist. Ben Mac Dui 07:49, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The two Raghnalls

Hello. There's something I've been thinking about that I'd like to bounce off you.

Here's a review of McDonald's Manx Kingship. [1] Beuermann has written quite a bit about Manx history, so he should be a good one to follow. [2]

It mentions how McDonald is inconsistent in some places; one of the things Beuermann singles out is related to the two Raghnalls - the sons of Somerled and Godred Olafsson (pp2-3). In Hebridean Sea Kings Sellar (196-198) made the case that it was the son of Somerled that went into Caithness, basing his reasoning on the Orkneyinga saga and Roger of Howden's account of the event. McDonald (pp109-110) notes that the confusion has since been settled, when A.A.M. Duncan showed that the main source of Howden's account was altered, to in effect read 'son of Somerled' rather than the original 'son of Godred'. Beuermann says that McDonald's (p3): "inconsistencies rob him of the chance to discuss the significance of Rognvaldr of Man's rule: the first Scottish-backed ruler of Caithness without any dynastic connection to the Orkney earls". So, I guess the thinking is that it was indeed Godred's son, rather than Somerled's son, that ventured into Caithness. McDonald (p110 fn39) says in a footnote "Duncan's reading supplants the argument of Sellar".

I think I'd like to work on Raghnall mac Somhairle next as it's rather stubbish. I'd like to read more about what the Scots were doing in Caithness/Orkney and how Hebrideans may have been involved up there. I wonder if Sellar's point on this Raghnall's descent from Ingibjorg still stands? Howden's account was the linchpin of the argument, without it there's nothing linking the Orkneyinga saga's account to this Raghnall. Right? Sure it's still possible that he descends from her, but (as Sellar notes p198) Godred's father is known to have many concubines, so in reality it just as could have been any one of them. The whole possibility and Sellar's reasoning is worth mentioning I think, but I'm not sure that the Ingibjorg-connection is solid enough to go into a 'family tree' template at the bottom. I think that templates and infoboxes put too much certainty on things which maybe shouldn't be treated that way. Anyways, I'm keeping my eyes peeled for more on the two Raghnalls.

I'd like to read a good review or two on McDonald's Kingdom of the Isles. I've found one online by Seán Duffy which hopefully someone might have access to [3]. I'll pass it on if I get a copy of it.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 20:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. I just checked the bibliography of Manx Kingship and noticed that Duncan's bit on Howden, Roger of Howden and Scotland, dates from 1999; Sellar's from 2000. I suppose he must have been aware of Duncan, or had written his paper up before Duncan's was published.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 20:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah this makes it more confusing. The main argument in Gareth Williams' The Family of Moddan of Dale, in West Over Sea (2007), relies on Sellar and the idea that Ingibjorg was his grandmother. Although, he clearly prefers Somerled's son, he says (p148) "With regard to Hebridean involvement in Caithness, however, it really does not matter which Rögnvaldr was involved, so long as he was the grandson of Ingibjörg". Unfortunately Williams doesn't seem to be aware of the whole Duncan/Howden thing though, he doesn't mention it or cite him, he just follows Sellar.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 20:49, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I can't shed any light on the Raghnall issue and Beuermann's remarks seem pretty definitive (and very useful - thank-you). I have a little more about Ingibjorg that I can send, although I think it's essentially a re-hash of previous analyses. The Caithness connection is not well-documented as far as I know and Imsen is the best I've seen. Ben Mac Dui 13:11, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've attempted to bring some clarity, based on the above, to the previously confusing remarks at Raghnall mac Gofraidh. Ben Mac Dui 19:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've added something similar to ye olde sandboxe (Caithness section) and I'd appreciate it if you could check I am not misconstruing what is being said. Ben Mac Dui 19:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I tweaked Ingibjörg's name a bit (from Hakonsdóttir to Hákonardóttir). This website is handy for these types of names [4]. Scroll down about a third of the way and there's a section called "Surnames: Patronymics and Matronymics".--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 07:30, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wow MacDui, you couldn't have picked a better time to roll out the article, with the whole Port an Eilean Mhòir ship burial in the news. It's nice to see that a member of the team seems to have a few images uploaded to the commons too.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 06:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was planning to let it sit a while but it seemed like the obvious opportunity and a good way to celebrate the find I think. I'm not altogether happy with the structure but it's out there to be improved now. Thanks for your assistance. Ben Mac Dui 08:44, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your excellent new article at DYK

Hi Macdui, your original hook was too long (225 character rather than the allowed 200) and didn't mention the image. I've proposed an alternative on the nomination page. Fine work on the article I must say. I've just returned from a field-trip to Orkney, where our guide mentioned a mutual acquaintance, a Lewis man whose first name is Uisdean (a gaelic version of the Norwegian name Øystein) and MacLeod as his second name, nicely pointing up the continuing influence. Cheers, Mikenorton (talk) 12:47, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Mike, I have replied at the nom page already. I was in Orkney recently myself and caught site of the Eolianite outcrop - interesting stuff. Fjell Svartisson

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Compromise?

Hello, Ben MacDui. You have new messages at Mugginsx's talk page.
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Your DYK nom for Scandinavian Scotland

Hi Ben, I've been reviewing your nomination at Template:Did you know nominations/Scandinavian Scotland and there are issues with tone that need to be worked out before I continue with my review. Please see my comments there and let me know when they are addressed. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:53, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've replied there again. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:01, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scandinavian Scotland

Hi, Ben. I wish you had told me about this! Not that I could really improve on it, but I would have liked to watch it grow. Nice new templates too. Nora lives (talk) 19:27, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can understand the inclusion of Cacht ingen Ragnaill, because of the possibility she was the sister of Echmarcach mac Ragnaill, but Máel Muire ingen Amlaíb? Nora lives (talk) 19:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, thank-you and all and any input is welcome of course. I don't feel strongly about Ms. Amlaíb, but if she is the daughter of Olaf Sandals, does that not make her a "Princess of the Isles", even if there is no evidence she ever visited them? To be honest I was wondering if there would be enough articles to fill that part of the template and added anything I could find - then a small platoon of confusing Margarets turned up! By all means cast her into the outer darkness if you prefer. Ben Mac Dui 19:46, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your reasoning. It would be surprising if she did not inherit any interests, of various nature, in the Isles from her father. I believe she should stay in the template, and it's such a shame we have nothing else on her, or Cacht, the latter even being edited out of the Uí Briain genealogies, and not included in the histories... sad because she's standing right there in the annals, and we know she was of major importance because their marriage was recorded. There is a persistent failure in Irish scholarship as well. Nora lives (talk) 20:23, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Men were rather unkind to women in the past, I am led to believe, ignoring them and all. Happily, all that is behind us in the internet age, or so one reads. Ben Mac Dui 20:42, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That link goes nowhere. In Irish and Norse society women could be quite influential, but in the former nearly everything was written down in the monasteries, and the pedigrees were simplified to exclude the complexities of marriage arrangements and female inheritance. Often or usually the wife, or in some cases two wives, of a Gaelic ruler enjoyed some of the power, and of course this would in part depend on the family she came from, how much she brought to the marriage, etc. We can assume Cacht's family, whether of Waterford or the Isles, were quite wealthy, as the Uí Ímair were, and had extensive trade connections, so for all we know today she very well may have wielded greater influence in total than did her husband Donnchad. Where the Gaelic establishment might have balked at Uí Ímair males attempting to establish geographically wider overlordships, they might not have objected so much to the (potentially) extensive economic influence of in this case a female "ruler." They did after all style her Queen of Ireland, rather difficult to ignore. We can doubt she went on military campaigns, but not much else.

Concerning your new article, I have thought of something it could use. In Routledge's The Viking World, which I think you have, you can find a paper where the author mentions the likelihood that the Picts and Gaels had regular contact with the Scandinavians long before the beginning of the Viking Age. This paper should be in the British Isles section of the volume, but I no longer have my copy, and downloading the ebook is no longer possible. Nora lives (talk) 23:03, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I'll take a look asap. Ben Mac Dui 09:07, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Scandinavian Scotland

On 4 November 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Scandinavian Scotland, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Scandinavian influence in Scotland, still evident today (pictured), was probably at its height during the time of Thorfinn the Mighty? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Scandinavian Scotland.You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for supporting the DYK project Victuallers (talk) 12:02, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nice article! Jheald (talk) 19:03, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. Ben Mac Dui 19:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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In reply to your query

You asked at the Scratch My Arse Rock AfD where the explicit function was recorded. The answer is in the Five Pillars: "Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia. It incorporates elements of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers." (emphasis mine) LadyofShalott 20:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank-you for clarifying this. My view is that in this AfD, the word "elements" is one I would have emphasised if the closure had not come first, but no matter. I am all in favour articles about small rocks if there is something useful and notable to say about them, but mere existence isn't enough for me. Ben Mac Dui 21:36, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A long, long time ago

I have been looking into the affairs of the Ui Imair and I spotted this edit of yours from nearly 3 years ago. Although there is a reference to John O'Donovan I can't find anything that backs up the suggestion that "Gothfraid (i.e. Ímar's father) was added by a copyist in the 17th century". Can you help me out? Ben Mac Dui 12:22, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

MacDui, the relevant text is The Fragmentary Annals of Ireland, page 198 (footnote m) and 199, which John O'Donovan translated from a manuscript prepared in 1643 by Dubhaltach Mac Firbisigh. The entry in question was translated by O'Donovan as: "The King of the Lochlanns died of an ugly, sudden disease. sic enim Deo placuit." The identification of the King as Gothfraid was added by Mac Firbisigh (or his copyist) and was not translated by O'Donovan. The same entry is discussed by Ó Corráin in The Vikings in Ireland and Scotland in the Ninth Century] (pages 36-37), where he refers to it as "much-emended". See also Early Scandinavian Dublin, footnote 103, for other references. Eroica (talk) 16:17, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - that's very helpful. I'll have a look and get back to you if any other question arises. Ben Mac Dui 16:33, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry

Sorry about that. I check that account infrequently now. I'll get to everything as soon as possible, including trying to find that passage which could give your new article more prehistoric background. Thanks for sending me a copy. If I still have O'C's paper, which I think I got from our dear Norwegian Finn, and it has p. 321, I'll send it to you. He's one of my favourite scholars. As far as that Gofraid you and Eroica have been discussing, I've never gone into the problem. The pre-Ímar (d. 873) ancestry of the dynasty is such a mess it is unreconstructable. Were they Danes? Were they Norwegians? Were they Swedes? I've seen good arguments for each.

One argument to keep a look out for in the future: the Uí Ímair were ancestral to the dynasty of William the Conqueror in some way. This would follow in part from Woolf's excellent argument that Rognvald of More was really Ragnall ua Ímair, and I have seen respectable amateur scholarship on the web finding connections between Normandy and the House of Ivar. This could all become a very major deal in the future (and/or get ignored for several more decades). One problem is that the dynasty of Normandy didn't follow the Uí Ímair naming trends, but I would counter with the fact that they were asserting their identities in very different cultural environments.

I just thought I'd share that with you and everyone, because I will probably never write that paper myself. They're just thoughts anyone might have, anyway, and I'm not completely behind them. My interest in the world of the Norse in the Isles remains fundamental to me, because of my distant ancestry, but I am no longer engaged in research. My life has changed too significantly over the course of the year.

BTW, I believe Ó Corráin has taken a look at some of our articles in WP this year. Let me get back to you on it. Nora lives (talk) 08:47, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No problem at all - I just wanted to make sure the pony express had not been captured by e-Vikings. I quite agree that Ímar's ancestors pre-Gofraidh are impossible. I did read the Woolf piece but I fear I will never get around to exploring the Normans. Rognvald Eysteinsson is however within reach and I may take a look at this. I hope Dr. Ó Corráin was not too appalled by our fumblings (or at least mine - only on Wikipedia would someone who had never heard the words "Uí Ímair" until about 10 months and 28 days ago by allowed to be involved in their affairs in this way!) Ben Mac Dui 10:35, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, the Normans have always been out of my realm of study as well, a different story, France and all. I'm just here for a second right now, so look at Barrett's contribution to The Viking World, pp. 420-1, for his discussion of the possibility of pre-Viking Age contact. Actually this is not what I'm looking for, and I've just happened upon it. I was referring to another and more positive discussion by another modern scholar (I'm pretty sure in one of the volumes we have). Anyway, if I were to dig out sources I haven't looked at for approaching a decade, I could find for you early 20th century mentionings of prehistoric "Danes' Graves" in Scotland, but it would probably take me weeks. Nora lives (talk) 11:58, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No worries - but if it turns up I'd be curious. I have heard stories of a "giant's grave" discovered in Glenelg in the early 19th century, but whether 1st millennium AD or 3rd BC is now impossible to tell. Ben Mac Dui

Next time I'm down where my old books are, I'll try to get the chance to look through them. Returning to medieval history, I very much hope you'll work on both Rognvald and Ragnall! But currently in even greater need is nearly everyone's favourite imperial general of the dynasty, the celebrated Emperor Sitric, as I like to call him. His article is so poor it's a pretty major embarrassment offered to the public by WP, if that makes any sense. Nora lives (talk) 08:59, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looking through the history, Angus, Finn, Deacon, and I are all guilty of not doing what we could have. You would get many points for being the first to go for it. For the annalistic material conveniently collected, see Downham's prosopography (Viking Kings of Britain and Ireland), but realize that she condenses the entries, and you'll need the CELT Project too. Nora lives (talk) 09:41, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you want, of course! Please excuse me. It's 5:00 in the morning, and I'm currently on a powerful stimulant. Nora lives (talk) 10:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Help?

Ben, I may need to totally deactivate my account, although more complicated procedures could possibly prevent this, such as giving me temporary system powers to go through and selectively destroy up to several thousand contributions to my user and talk pages made over the course of time, many buried deeply in the page histories, and the probably vast majority of all lacking edit summaries, unfortunately. If I choose to deactivate, is it possible to first save these pages in their entirety, meaning with everything buried included, to keep them for reference and reflection? Is there any software capable of doing this, or at least able to open such enormous files as might be created? Thank you so much for any assistance or direction you can give me. Nora lives (talk) 08:59, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. First of all, I know of no such software. Secondly, I know of no method of providing editors with temporary system powers. You will recall Oversight powers. Clearly this could be used but it would require you to identify, save off-wiki and then have struck the individual edits. Unless such software can be found (and I doubt it has been created as the need for it isn't likely to be substantial) retrieving the information you want to keep sounds like the first task (after blanking anything you may wish to remove immediately). After that there would seem to be various options such as:

Blank your user page. It could then be deleted by myself or any other admin under WP:CSD U1. (Just add the {{db-user}} tag and/or let me know). Theoretically an admin could restore the edits and view them - but why would they? - and any edits would not be available to other editors or the public. You could then re-create this page with no edit history. Note that this is not allowed for user talk pages however.

Have Oversight remove the edits. This would do the trick, although it might try the patience of the Oversighter if they were very numerous. Perhaps they can do removals between ranges? I don't know.

I don't think WP:CHUS is much good in this case but if the circumstances are extreme you do have the right to vanish.

There may be other solutions that I am not aware of. This last link allows for an email "If you wish to contact bureaucrats to alert them of a privacy issue or an emergency" although I don't think this would fall under their bailiwick. You might try asking User:Warofdreams, who is very experienced and may be able to offer advice. I have always found him to be very helpful. I am sorry you feel things are in such a mess - perhaps on reflection they may not be so bad? I hope you decide to stay and help fix up some of the deficiencies you refer to above. If not, thank you for your help and encouragement. If so, my advice is to avoid editing whilst using stimulants! Hope this is helpful, and let me know if there is anything else I can do. Ben Mac Dui 20:04, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Nora lives and MacDui. Agree with MacDui that there isn't (to my knowledge) any software that can mine down into the WP pages saving all of the sub-pages. However, if you can go thro' all of the individual pages, you can save them as html pages onto your hard disk and thus saving all of the information including formatting, images etc. The links contained in the saved pages will still work linking back to the wikipedia pages. For this all you need to do is right click the WP page and open the item Save Page As ..., the page you want to save will be the same as that on WP so Save as type: and choose Web Page, complete. The exact page will be saved to your PC.

Alternatively, you can download [5]. This takes all of the hard work out of creating an Apache server and mySql database on your own PC. This is the exact same software that Wikipedia uses and once you get it set up you can export your pages to your own hard drive (see the page Special:Export). From within your own wiki running on your own computer you can import (see Special:Import) the file that you have just created and it appears on your own machine with the exact same formatting etc that was on your original WP pages. The software does need some direct tweeking ie editing php files to get it running the way you would need it, but nothing too onerous. You have to make yourself an admin on your own software so that you have full access to the special pages that allow you to import your own pages from WP. You don't have to be an admin on WP to export the files, only on your own wiki to import them. You can then ask for your right to disappear and everythings gone. All of this refers to Windows, but Mac shouldn't be too different. Hope this helps. --Bill Reid | (talk) 17:49, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ben and Bill, thank you so much! These options are very encouraging, and I may very well go with a combination, setting up this software, saving what I want, and then asking for my userpage to be wiped. My talk page is less of a problem, less being buried in there I want gone, so it would not be too tedious for someone in Oversight to take care of. While not an option with my historically vast userpage, selecting ranges should be possible in the other. Finally, I'm likely to change my username again.

You've both made me very happy. Of course I will probably want to come back around and make some notable contributions from time to time, and would long for my old user rights. The situation(s) I've gotten myself into is/are complicated and I don't know all of the aspects yet, nor where certain ones could be going, or when if somewhere. I will tell you that I'm interested in Harvard, and now the nearby MIT as well. Cool things! Thank you two so much again. Nora lives (talk) 07:15, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scottish islands

Hi, just had a hack at improving {{Infobox Scottish island}} - making use of the files I've just uploaded to commons:Category:Topographic maps of Scotland. You might be interested in comments on the template's talk.--Nilf anion (talk) 22:55, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Miekle Kilmory

Hi Ben, I am not sure as to what you mean by that something is wrong with the syntax? The farm is located here (NS 0507 6116). An editor has removed the listing from Kilmory, I just dont see the duplication as stated as there is no listing for the Bute Meikle Kilmory. Regards Newm30 (talk) 23:32, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see that it has gone. I presume the editor believed it was as stated simply a duplicate of Kilmory Castle and/or not likely to be confused with "Kilmory" and/or that as "Meikle Kilmory" doesn't seem to be mentioned elsewhere there is currently no need for a dab. Dab pages are to help with navigation, not directories. The edit said "Meikle Kilmory, a farmstead and ruins of Kilmory Castle on the Isle of Bute, Scotland", which should surely be:

Meikle Kilmory, a farmstead and the ruins of Kilmory Castle on the Isle of Bute, Scotland
Meikle Kilmory, a farmstead amidst the ruins of Kilmory Castle on the Isle of Bute, Scotland
Meikle Kilmory, a farmstead containing the ruins of Kilmory Castle on the Isle of Bute, Scotland

or similar. It doesn't sound like Meikle Kilmory can be the name of both a farm and the ruins of castle, so I am guessing its the last but I could see nothing on the OS. Ben Mac Dui 08:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Request for help

If you have the time, could you possibly have a quick look at (i) the recent discussion at Talk:Clan MacNeacail and (ii) the reverts to which the discussion relates, and contribute in any way you think fit?

Many thanks,

45ossington (talk) 08:51, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your very helpful input. 45ossington (talk) 09:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Season's Greetings!

One for your Watchlist!

Christmas in Scotland

Fancy helping this become a Did you know? All help with expansion and referencing greatly appreciated. I imagined several sections, eg pre-Reformation, the long period of abolition, and the modern era. Cheers. --Mais oui! (talk) 15:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bah, Humbug! Ben Mac Dui 19:09, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:VERIFY is official Wikipedia policy, n'est ce pas?

I am very concerned by this (repetitive) editing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scotland_Bill_2011&diff=466321972&oldid=466113668

The item at Talk is very weak WP:SYNTH material, not even mentioning LCMs, whereas there are literally hundreds of reliable external sources stating that the SP needs to pass an LCM.

Surely verifiable, referenced content trumps weak, tangential original research every time? --Mais oui! (talk) 13:13, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just how many reliable ext refs must one supply before Sysop action must be taken against their repeated removal? The Times was wrong was it? Was The Scotsman wrong too? Or the BBC? I can keep adding reliable ext refs till the cows come home, so their removal must simply be halted. Users must realise that their own interpretation of primary sources is pretty much worthless here at Wikipedia. We will never raise the standard of our often diabolically poor articles until they are firmly founded on solid external sources. --Mais oui! (talk) 04:32, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Map queries

I've applied the local relief maps to a number of island articles - see my relevant contribs for the list. I've tried to get a broad selection to see how it works in practice.

Also, I wonder about the potential for images like the one to the right? It is about the largest scale I can produce using the OS raster data. Its possible to extract a bit more from the vector data and improve the resolution of height data to about the same as the water data. However, that vastly more time-consuming and will not generate any real benefit as a thumbnail.

I don't know what areas are of particular interest, but I'd imagine you can think of several - as well as thoughts on how to improve the map.--Nilf anion (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You have been busy and the maps look very good. I am going to need to visit most of the articles soon due to changes being made here so I will add a few more. The Cairngorm map is excellent (I presume you know that north is to the right on it). Something like this for Skye, Lewis and Harris, and the Uists would be great as the topography is very difficult to describe. There are various editors active on geography articles on the mainland as well, but I think a quick note to WT:SCO might be best rather than my guessing. Thanks once again for this excellent work. Ben Mac Dui 09:59, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Um... north on the Cairngorms map is up. Loch Einich is west and on the left, Loch Avon runs SW/NE and goes bottom-left/top-right, Braerich is west and left of Ben Macdui etc. Thought you'd have recognised yourself ;) I'll probably drop note at WT:SCO later.--Nilf anion (talk) 12:28, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, a senior moment - I was forgetting to take continental drift into account. I see that Skye exists already too. Ben Mac Dui 15:45, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]