User talk:Belfrystat

June 2017

Please do not add promotional material to Wikipedia, as you did to Belfry High School (Belfry, Kentucky). While objective prose about beliefs, organisations, people, products or services is acceptable, Wikipedia is not intended to be a vehicle for soapboxing, advertising or promotion. Thank you. — O Fortuna ^{semper crescis, aut decrescis} 07:08, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Where does this even come from? Nothing on the page referred to any of this

Your addition to Belfry High School (Belfry, Kentucky) has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. — O Fortuna ^{semper crescis, aut decrescis} 07:19, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Belfrystat, you are invited to the Teahouse!

Hi Belfrystat! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from experienced editors like AmaryllisGardener (talk). Visit the Teahouse We hope to see you there! Delivered by HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts 22:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Article Guidelines

Please read and become familiar with the article guidelines for school articles. Details about each team and club are not appropriate for school articles, especially including names of non-notable people like current players and/or coaches/advisors. School articles are to give a thorough, but still general, idea about the school, not every detail about what happens at the school. --JonRidinger (talk) 13:54, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

You need to look at some other schools articles then ole bud, a lot of others have them and when I created this page years ago it had all of that info on there until someone came through and wiped the whole dang page clean for absolutely no reason.

Be sure to also read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I'm fully aware of many poorly-written school articles with all sorts of inappropriate details and other info, and have edited quite a few because of the school article guidelines and general Wikipedia policy on article content and notability. Their existence, though, doesn't mean it's OK to make others like them. Your best bet is to find articles that have been rated as "Good" or "Featured" and use them as examples, along with the article guidelines. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:51, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Well, I have put information on there about the schools history that has been deleted as well. I went to the school and still volunteer there so I know what goes on, not the ones that delete everything (not you), also, there is a citation needed under feeder schools regarding the consolidation, there is no source, they are not putting it out online that it is changing it is being done "quietly" it's been in the works since 2014 and is just now being done. Can you help get the citation needed off please.

I am more than happy to assist! I'm similar in that I enjoy contributing to articles on topics I am connected with, such as my hometown and alma mater. That said, I've learned even when I "know" something, in order for it to stay on Wikipedia, it needs to be verfiable and have reliable sources. For the consolidation, is there any other source for the info, like a newspaper article, board of education minutes, or newsletter? It need not be online to be added as a source. It seems the consolidation has already occurred as the school district website only lists Belfry Elementary School. The letter from the principal is from the beginning of the school year and still lists the previous name, though, and Blackberry Elementary is gone from the site completely. Also, it seems the elementary schools no longer go to grade 8, but that isn't mentioned in the article. I'd be sure to mention what grades go to where in each of the feeder schools to clarify for readers like me who aren't familiar with the district setup. The feeder system should also be mentioned in the district article. I will try to take a look later this evening or tomorrow and see what I can help with. Any additional reliable sources you can find would be great too. --JonRidinger (talk) 00:32, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

They haven't published an article out about consolidation, I will continue looking though! Like I said, it's basically being a "quiet" move that's happened since 2014. Small changes have occurred at the sites such as moving teachers, painting the building the new colors, expanding the building, adding a new parking lot and entrance and others. Once school starts back in August, Blackberry Elementary will be removed from the district website and they've already changed the Southside name to Belfry Elementary on the website. The note from the principal will be changed in August, that's what she told me. Yes, grade schools are PreK-5, Belfry Middle is grades 6-8, Belfry High is 9-12. I'll make that change this evening. I appreciate the help!

I just love it when districts are so clear about changes like that (sarcasm) :/. If anything is published, such as a letter home or something similar, that can be included too. Wikipedia prefers secondary sources, but for non-promotional facts like that, a primary source can work if no secondary source is available. In addition, on the district article, instead of the "mascot" column, I think it would be better for that to be a "grades" column to show what grade levels each school houses, especially since there are obviously some elementary schools in other parts of the district that are P-8. If it could be organized into the various feeder patterns (if possible), that would be helpful too. --JonRidinger (talk) 00:59, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I will work on that! I've been waiting on some type of article or something to come online. Unfortunately the only thing was a voting ballet the principal created on Facebook about letting people choose the mascot of the school :/

Can you check what I recently updated? Before someone else goes in and deletes everything lol! thanks!!Belfrystat (talk) 03:07, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Added Regional Championships to sports, in Kentucky, where we only have one state tournament per sport (excluding football), when a team wins a regional title, that is a huge accomplishment for the program, school and community because they are very hard to come by. Belfrystat (talk) 03:16, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters. Although it may seem contrary to common usage, Wikipedia uses sentence case and not title case in most instances including headings. The changes you are making are therefore contrary to the guidelines. Rather than leave a warning message, I simply ask you to change back any such changes you have made and to refrain from making any further ones. Thank you. Donner60 (talk) 03:22, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Didn't know this, I was using the common usage correct grammar, sorry about that.Belfrystat (talk) 03:26, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, LOTS to worry about. Don't worry, though, we'll work with you to meander the policies of Wikipedia. First off, watch out for any phrases like "is known for". Those are known as weasel words and should be avoided. Our perception of what our school or town is "known for" isn't always accurate. I've found most times it isn't, especially for small towns. Third-party sources allow any claims of what a school is "known for" to have a neutral validation. For instance, if you had a news article that mentioned the school's increased use of technology, it could be worded such as "the school began a more technology-based approach using e-textbooks" or "the school has been recognized by so-and-so for their use of technology..." or something along those lines. Also, avoid mentioning specific staff members unless they are notable (meaning a Wikipedia article exists on them). Also, any enrollment stats should also have some kind of source, online or not. Subheadings should be used sparingly and should be as short as reasonably possible. I'd really like to do a rewrite of the campus and history sections since there's a lot of overlap. The campus section covers most of the early history and the history section covers the recent history since the current campus opened.

As for the regional championships, that may need some discussion in the larger schools project. Generally, only state championships are considered notable enough and there's some support for state runners-up. But I see what you're saying with regional championships given Kentucky's lack of size classifications.

Basically, any info you add should be presented in a neutral way, not promotional. Your job isn't to lead readers to a specific conclusion; it's simply to present facts and let them make their own conclusions. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:30, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Awesome, I really appreciate the help, I really do, no one has been helpful when I am editing the page recently, they just go and delete. I made the changes, removed the staff name, included a source for the enrollment, etc. I have a lot of history of the early beginnings of Belfry also. Belfrystat (talk) 03:40, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I made some changes, but mostly just to tighten the article up a bit and then we can go from there. Another thing that is a help is the use of citation templates. These are ways to insert citations you have and then they display at the bottom in the reference list. The most commonly used ones are "cite web" and "cite news". --JonRidinger (talk) 03:49, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I was just using the cit your sources button at the bottom to put them in, inside the document, I wasn't putting them at the end of the article. I will add some more history of the campus tomorrow. Do you get notifications when I edit the page so you can see tomorrow?Belfrystat (talk) 03:55, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good. And you were putting the sources in the right place (right after the fact they support). The template and the "ref" tags will automatically show the reference at the end of the article. The template just organizes the info for the source so it shows a title, accessdate, publisher, etc. instead of just a bare link. I did a citation template on the enrollment reference so you can see it. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:58, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Awesome!! I am also editing the grade levels on the district page!!Belfrystat (talk) 04:01, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

The recent edits at the BHS page are why some days I just take a break from Wikipedia. So frustrating and reminds me of my early editing days when I'd spend a lot of time writing something I didn't realize was against policy and then would find it removed without much, if any explanation. There are sooooo many better ways, IMO, to handle improving an article rather than just slash it, especially when a local editor is willing and ready to work.

Best advice I can give you is to use the time to gather reliable sources, both primary and secondary, to help build up the different sections. Since you have access to the school, you should be able to find many of the needed sources in print, like old newspaper articles and publications for the history section, as well as documents on the curriculum and available courses (like a course catalog, which may be online). What I tend to do is build sections in my sandbox, which you can access at the top or at User:Belfrystat/sandbox. It's part of your userspace where you can experiment and place collected sources while you build various sections for the article. My sandbox has quite a few projects of mine and I've used it to start several articles (including 2 yesterday: Kent State Golden Flashes men's golf and Mid-American Conference Men's Golf Championships). You can also start getting some more photos (preferably ones you take yourself) to use in the article of the school and its various aspects, such as the previous building, the stadium, athletic fields, auditorium, etc. It's unlikely every photo can be used in the article, but we can do a Wikimedia Commons category for the school that will be linked at the bottom. You can see some of what I did at Theodore Roosevelt High School (Kent, Ohio). It's not perfect, but has a lot to go on for ideas. I'm here if you have questions too. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:58, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

@JonRidinger I reentered the edits back onto the page from the other day. Belfrystat (talk) 23:44, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I removed most of the athletics material you added again. Since the school has several state tiles, regional titles and appearances at state should not be mentioned. Meters (talk) 00:01, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

the reason they were added was to have other sports receive credit as well since football is the only one with state titles.Belfrystat (talk) 00:03, 10 June 2017 (UTC) Also, state runner-ups I believe could be good to be on the page, big thing as well. Girls BB has one of those, FB has about 5Belfrystat (talk) 00:05, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

It's not about what you or the school thinks is important, or giving the various sports credit. The football team has several state tiles, so it is not appropriate to list the times they were runners up. Meters (talk) 00:08, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

not about what you think either lmaoBelfrystat (talk) 00:11, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

No, it's not about what I think. It's about what multiple editors have reached consensus on as to what is appropriate for school article. See WP:WPSCH/AG, and WP:WPSCH/AG#OS in particular for the sports issue. Meters (talk) 00:19, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Page break

I'm someone who thinks listing state runners-up is OK in an article, but only when needed to supply some context. It would be more appropriate if the sports section were in prose than in a list. The main idea behind mentioning state championships is to show is that the team is successful or at least has had periods of significant (or otherwise notable) success. A short paragraph can include basic info of lesser titles without listing each one, such as "the team has made 15 appearances in the state championship game" or "the team has won 12 regional titles, the most recent in 2012" or something like that. Again, it provides reasonable info without going into excessive details and turning the article into a massive listing of sports accomplishments. We don't want school articles to become a sports articles that lightly mentions academics, but soooooo many US high school articles are like that. Part of WP:SCOPE and WP:UNDUE. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2017 (UTC)