User talk:Bearnard O'Riain.

Welcome!

Welcome to Wikipedia, Bearnard O'Riain.! Thank you for your contributions. I am Qed237 and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{help me}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Qed237 (talk) 11:21, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Eurovision Invitation!

WikiProject Eurovision invitation for Bearnard O'Riain.! Hello, I've noticed that you contributed to an article within our project's scope, and would like to formally invite you to join our team of editors at WikiProject Eurovision, a WikiProject dedicated to the Eurovision family of events. If you would like to join, then please add your name to this list and add the project talk page to your watchlist.
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Thanks and have a nice day! Wes Mouse ✒ 14:39, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Jovan Radomir

On 18 February 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Jovan Radomir, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Swedish television presenter Jovan Radomir wrote the English translation of the Marija Šerifović song "Molitva", which went on to win the Eurovision Song Contest 2007? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jovan Radomir. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:03, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deviating away from consensus

Bearnard, a recent edit you made deviated away from a consensus that was agreed on how the wording for the other awards sections should be written. WikiProject Eurovision has skeleton-based article structure that it follows, so that they are all uniformed in layout. Such structure is what has gained some of these articles good article classification, with one even achieving A-class. You can view the entire RfC debate at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Archive 8#RfC on the article layout of Eurovision Song Contest by year articles. Please be more careful in future, and if in doubt seek advice at the project talk page or at Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision/Format and Guides. Also, I fail to understand why you capitalise the word "contest" when used in such context as "the 1992 Contest"? The word 'contest' is not a pronoun, when used on its own, and therefore does not need to use the upper case C. The only time it uses the upper case C is when used in full context such as "Eurovision Song Contest". Please avoid such errors. Thank you. Wes Mouse ✒ 01:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bearnard, I already informed you just over a month ago about changing the way the word "contest" is written, yet you still deviate from the correct way of writing the word as shown in this edit. Could you please explain why you feel the word "contest" should be styled as Contest? If we were to be referring to the contest using its entire title "Eurovision Song Contest", then yes, we would use a capital C. However, as has been noted in several good article reviews and 2 feature article reviews, we are not suppose to capitalise the word if it is used on its own or in the format of "2016 contest" (for example). Please stop making these erroneous changes, as they are not following the correct English literature style of writing. Wes Mouse ✒ 16:11, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wes, I'm not one for edit wars, but you're not exactly making this easy for me, so let me give you four reasons why I believe it is "X-year Contest" and not "X-year contest".

I realise we're not exactly supposed to take social media as an accurate barometer, but the biography (not a tweet, or a reply, but the biography) of the ESC's verified Twitter account states that "the 2016 Contest will take place on 10, 12 and 14 May 2016". That's a capital C, in reference to a specific edition of the ESC.

In a number of good articles (looking squarely at ESCs 2012 and 2014) there's inconsistency between "X-year Contest" or "X-year contest". (There are other mistakes in the good articles, such as citations in lead and sloppy grammar, but that's another discussion altogether.) In the lead of 2014 alone, there are 39 references to an "X-year [C|c]ontest", about 10 of which refer to an "X-year contest". I'd also go as far as saying that in both articles, spokespersons who have participated in ESC in the past as a performer or as a (co-)host have been listed as "X-job in X-year Contest." That's another capital C, referring to another specific edition of the ESC and contradicting your so-called "consensus". If anything, there's ambiguity.

The public rules of the 61st Contest (i.e. Stockholm 2016) give the Contest's proper title: "the 2016 Eurovision Song Contest". When "Eurovision" and "Song" are removed on account of their superfluity, you're left with "the 2016 Contest". That's another capital C, referring once again to another specific edition of the ESC.

Finally, "the Contest" is not a pronoun, I can agree on that, but it is an abbreviation of the proper title, "the Eurovision Song Contest". It should be capitalised at least when referring to a specific year. If anywhere, "the contest" should only be used in cases where no other year is mentioned in the same sentence.

If you don't agree with me on any of those points, you're more than welcome to get back to me. Best, Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 19:37, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are completely incorrect with what you are saying here. The word "contest" is a noun, and should never be capitalised unless it is being used in the proper noun context of "Eurovision Song Contest", which is a trademark name (proper noun). When we simply refer to something as "X-year contest", then the word contest is merely a noun. If you wish for it to be capitalised then change such so it reads X-year Eurovision Song Contest. Proper nouns and common nouns are basic English grammar, although have been a cause for confusion in this matter, which has been argued about for years. But the arguments all ended the same, by admins having to intervene and cool-down the over-heatedness. Wes Mouse ✒ 19:52, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And secondly, if you are going to start picking at faults like "sloppy grammar" on some of the good articles, then I would suggest you take those matters up with the highly experienced Wikipedian's who did the reviews and advised on specific changes in written content. Because the way you came across with that remark makes it feel like you are implying that I wrote with "sloppy grammar". And I am not impressed with such imperative comment. Wes Mouse ✒ 19:56, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thirdly, you state that you are "not one for edit wars". Unfortunately you have edit warred in this matter. I only made the corrections from C to c on two occasions. You changed things from c to C three times, that I believe is 3 reverts (albeit not in a 24-hour period so is not classified as WP:3RR). That first opening line of your comment would not play to an advantage if you were to argue a case of not conducting warring activities. An admin would see that as a threat to carry out an edit war, not an attempt to avoid one. Wes Mouse ✒ 20:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm starting to wonder if this debate should be "raised from the grave" so-to-speak at the project talk page, as others may have other views on the matter. At least a review of the previous debates should be taken into consideration, and if a new consensus is reached, then it will at least bring a bit of peace to this matter - until the next time it raises its head again. However, there is already one active debate taking place over there regarding OGAE, which is likely to become lengthy and may even turn into a request for comment (dispute resolution) issue. But you are welcome to start up a debate over there if you wish. Wes Mouse ✒ 21:18, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Twitter as a source

Thanks Bearnard for reverting the April Fool's joke from Eurovision Song Contest 2016, really appreciate it. However, you also added a citation from Twitter which cannot be used unfortunately per WP:Twitter and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Archive 13#Twitter as sources. The project decided to avoid using Twitter as a source, and as a result I have removed the inclusion. Regards, Wes Mouse ✒ 13:14, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wesley, thanks for your message. Considering it's from the official account and I can't find a source anywhere else from the EBU I shave to do. In any case, I've also restored the results of the allocation draw in my most recent edit. Best.Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 13:18, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Despite it being from the official Twitter page, we have to be careful of WP:EXCEPTIONAL which states "challenged claims that are supported purely by primary or self-published sources". Because most tweets are in response to a fan's question, then it comes very close to self-publishing. Hence why it was decided that caution should be exercised, and only use a Tweet as a citation if an additional source that is not a tweet can also be added to further validate it. Wes Mouse ✒ 13:23, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Foreign language sources

Bearnard, in this edit summary you state the source is in German and to replace with an English citation when one is available. That is good, however, in the meantime and in circumstances like this, foreign sources are allowed and we would use the |trans-title= parameter from the template {{cite web}} in order to provide and English translation of the foreign source headline (see this example). Please bear this in mind for future reference. Regards, Wes Mouse ✒ 14:32, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sure thing Wesley, thanks for letting me know. I was going to translate the exact quote in question re: the voting procedure, but now that you've told me I'll know for future. Thanks, Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 15:15, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, Bearnard. Glad to be of help. I only found out about the trans-title thing after being a Wikipedian for 18 months. It is a handy tool to know, and allows us to still use foreign sources, even when an English one doesn't become available. Wes Mouse ✒ 23:19, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Eurovision query

Can you please explain what edit apparently made by me has been reverted. I have no memory of altering anything on this Eurovision page. Is it possible that somebody else could be using my identity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomani9 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This may help to answer your question. If it was in error, I do apologise, but considering it was on April Fool's Day, it could have been derived that the running order released was probably a joke. If you have anything to add please feel free to let me know. Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 18:20, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removing content

Bearnard, please could you explain why you removed the following content (The host city will be announced at a later date, although a few cities have shown their interest in hosting the contest) from the lead section of Eurovision Song Contest 2017, as you did in this edit? You are aware that per WP:LEAD, we are suppose to summarise the content that appears in the entire article, including anything on the bidding phase? Don't worry if this was a mistake, as the information has been reinstated in accordance with the rules of [[WP::LEAD]]. Wes Mouse ✒ 17:19, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yep, that was an error. Mea culpa. I had thought that the reader would assume the host city hasn't already been chosen if none had been specified, but since it contravenes WP:LEAD then I'll hold my hand up and say that was an error. Thanks for rectifying it for me and I hope anything else in the edit that wasn't errant is okay with you. Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 17:29, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Though just to add, I don't think linking to the bidding phase in "hosting the contest" when the bidding phase is expected to follow immediately afterward is necessary. Maybe that's just me assuming the reader will continue reading, which isn't a guarantee. Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 17:31, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Linking to the bidding phase and using the term "hosting the contest" is OK. It doesn't go against WP:EASTEREGG, as bidding and interest in hosting the contest are the same thing. Basically if a city is interested to host, then they have submitted a bid in which to do so. Easter egg links are those which would require a reader to open them before understanding what's going on. As the wording is rather self-explanatory and links to the bidding phase, then they will have an idea and understanding. There have been a few Easter egg type links that I've come across lately, and I've been repairing them so that they don't go against the guidelines. Wes Mouse ✒ 17:36, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for June 8

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Perfect, thanks for letting me know. I was planning on finishing the article today so thanks for giving me the heads-up. Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 09:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Eurovision: Important Announcement

WikiProject Eurovision

Important Announcement

Dear Project Member

Following a project community discussion, which was raised over the use of English translation columns on annual contest articles, and advice from the lead coordinator of The Guild of Copy Editors, who are extremely knowledgeable in regards to all editing practises and manual of style policies. A consensus decision has been reached to fully remove ALL English translations, as such content falls under the prohibition on original research, even if it seems helpful to the reader. This is because we have now to assume that every reader has access to automated translation tools that can always give them a sense of the meaning of the title in their native language; it is not Wikipedia's job to provide those tools for the reader. Which therefore means we are no longer to include an English translation column, nor are we to provide translation by any other means on contest articles.

Such information is currently in the process of being removed, and a new table formatting and layout style is being rolled out across all articles. Please view the new guidance on table layout at Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision/Format and Guides#Article layout. An example of the new table layout style can also be access via the collapsed section within this message. Thank you.

New table format and layout per advice from the guild of copy-editors and consensus of the project community

Draw	Country	Artist	Song	Language	Place	Points
01	Ukraine	Mariya Yaremchuk	"Tick-Tock"	English	6	113
02	Belarus	Teo	"Cheesecake"	English	16	43
03	Azerbaijan	Dilara Kazimova	"Start a Fire"	English	22	33
04	Iceland	Pollapönk	"No Prejudice"	English	15	58
05	Norway	Carl Espen	"Silent Storm"	English	8	88
06	Romania	Paula Seling & Ovi	"Miracle"	English	12	72
07	Armenia	Aram MP3	"Not Alone"	English	4	174
08	Montenegro	Sergej Ćetković	"Moj svijet"	Montenegrin	19	37
09	Poland	Donatan & Cleo	"My Słowianie – We Are Slavic"	Polish, English	14	62
10	Greece	Freaky Fortune feat. RiskyKidd	"Rise Up"	English	20	35
11	Austria	Conchita Wurst	"Rise Like a Phoenix"	English	1	290
12	Germany	Elaiza	"Is It Right"	English	18	39
13	Sweden	Sanna Nielsen	"Undo"	English	3	218
14	France	TWIN TWIN	"Moustache"	French¹	26	2
15	Russia	Tolmachevy Sisters	"Shine"	English	7	89
16	Italy	Emma	"La mia città"	Italian²	21	33
17	Slovenia	Tinkara Kovač	"Round and Round"	English, Slovene	25	9
18	Finland	Softengine	"Something Better"	English	11	72
19	Spain	Ruth Lorenzo	"Dancing in the Rain"	English, Spanish	10	74
20	Switzerland	Sebalter	"Hunter of Stars"	English	13	64
21	Hungary	András Kállay-Saunders	"Running"	English	5	143
22	Malta	Firelight	"Coming Home"	English	23	32
23	Denmark	Basim	"Cliché Love Song"	English	9	74
24	Netherlands	The Common Linnets	"Calm After the Storm"	English	2	238
25	San Marino	Valentina Monetta	"Maybe"	English	24	14
26	United Kingdom	Molly	"Children of the Universe"	English	17	40

1.^ The song is in French; however, there is one sentence in English and one sentence in Spanish.

2.^ The song is completely in Italian; however the last line was sung in English at the contest.

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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter Issue 49

→ Issue 49 ← Headlines Loreen won the 2023 Eurovision Song Contest in Liverpool. Eurovision Choir canceled indefinitely. Junior Eurovision 2023 to be in Nice, France.
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Cranny

Could you rewrite your text on Cranny a bit more? The text is now rather close to the text from the library page. The Banner talk 22:34, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have rewritten it some more and used a picture of the church altar that you uploaded on Wikimedia Commons. (Thank you for that, by the way.) Let me know if you're happy with it. Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 20:20, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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