User talk:AhmedElMohamedi

query on your removing edit without providing reference.

Hello, my edits was directly backed up by a source. I am aware of one narrative in which Israelis and Judaism all derived from Canaanites, but that does not automatically negate the potential and indeed prevalence of cultural and technological exchange in iron-age bronze-age states. I mentioned "rising Israelite culture", i did not specifically say they were immigrants. if you want to counter that point of view, please feel free to produce your writings along with citation. WhatIsAMan (talk) 06:17, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that the Israelites evolved from local Canaanites is supported by archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein and others. This is mentioned on the israelites page. You added "Palestine" and "Palestinians" to it, which serves a clear purpose. The creator of that page already discussed this months ago, and he didn’t want any modern definitions there. It’s a page about olive trees and olives in Jewish history and Israel. I have personal contact with him. He doesn’t have access to his account and told me to "look after it." There is a page about Olive trees in the Palestinian territories, leave this. AhmedElMohamedi (talk) 11:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have already addressed in my query to you, that I acknowledge the presence of one finding that Israelis are descended from Canaanites - and it is not an issue to me. That does not negate the potential of technological exchanges among sub-Canaanite cultures, which is supported by citation. The usage of the word "palestine" is as sinister and innocent as the way "israel" were being used on this wiki page - which belongs to the public, thanks to the creator of it - The usage of both words are historical and geographical and in the context of this wiki page, it is not political, such is the neutral view.

My edits add to the historical record and discourse for this page. They are directly relevant in tracing the path of olives' beginning both in the region towards Israel AND Judaism; and through the passage of time that around this olive plant they stood witness to a slew of change and evolution in human civilization; until this modern day. They are what happened and what is happening to olive trees, and they are all backed up by citations.

Please refrain from violating wiki policy and deleting what i put in there without cause, because what i placed here are all backed by sources. They represent valuable effort not only of myself, but the effort of those who contributed to the sources, and the effort for the preservation of knowledge. WhatIsAMan (talk) 12:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's great that you're citing sources to back up your edits. However, the issue at hand isn't about historical accuracy but the focus and intent of this specific page, which is meant to remain non-political and focused on Jewish history, particularly in relation to olives and their role in Israel and Judaism. The word "Palestine" is a geographical one, and as you might know, it is used by certain groups, especially in these times, to push certain narratives. This is something i don't want on pages that are meant to be non-political and are focused on basic history. The page is about Jewish history and culture and should remain this way. Unlike "Palestine" (a Greek term), "Land of Israel," "Israel," and "Judea" are the indigenous definitions for that territory. You could also use Caanan or Levant. Wiki policy supports the preservation of neutrality and non-political content, particularly on pages that are focused on historical and cultural topics. Therefore, while your sources are probably valid, the concern is not about their accuracy but rather about keeping the page focused on its original purpose and respecting the intent of its creator, which would be the history of Olives in the Land of Israel, Judaism and Jewish culture and only that. There is a page about olive trees planet by Palestinian Arabs. AhmedElMohamedi (talk) 13:19, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Jewish and other Palestinian cultures", what are you saying? The titel is Olives and olive trees in Israel and Judaism which indicates that its a page about Jewish history. AhmedElMohamedi (talk) 11:50, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish history is a topic of a culture that evolved over thousands of years, with its origins, its contributing elements, its offshoots, branches, and what they eventually become. Jewish people lived in diverse environment and became a diverse people in the regions where they were, where they passed through, and what they brought with them. All becoming the Jewish civilization of now and the Judaism of now.

The page Jewish history especially examplifies my point here. One should not sever the connection and retain what one consider is orthodox to Jew and Judaism and neglect the rest. WhatIsAMan (talk) 12:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish history did evolve over millennia, but it found its foundation in Israel. Diaspora Jews lived and still live in various environments and have adopted some aspects from their host countries. However, the cultural and genetic connection remains. Orthodox or secular, it doesn't matter. I’m not looking for active political debates. My intention is to edit pages and keep this one non-political, just as it was intended to be. AhmedElMohamedi (talk) 13:29, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

please stop disruptive editing

Hello User. Please stop deleting sources you do not agree with.

Because you have erased sources in the same edit where you included new source, it made it extremely difficult to fix.

I am now salvaging several sources you put in and placing them in appropriate location. I am also writing on your behalf to represent your point of view ALONGSIDE other views.

However, I have discovered some sources you put out that is not relevant to the topic or at least to the topic those sources were pointing at. I will try my best to incorporate them.

To address your point of whether certain events are relevant to Israel and Jew/Judaism:

- the entries included portray honest chronological events and causation.

- they do not conflate Jews, Arab Jews, Judaism and Zionist movement.

- all these above parties are all highly related to the topic at hand. Each of them interacted and contributed to the landscape and reality of Olives in Israel.

- some of these parties may at times be beneficial to Olive; and at times, DETRIMENTAL to Olive.

- it is dishonest and disingenuous to mask the facts to hide the truth of such events in order to paint a picture pleasing to your view.

remaining batch of sources i am unable to reinsert

batch 1

^[1] note: already applied elsewhere

^[2] note: already applied elsewhere are does not give new data

batch2

^[3] note: inaccessible

WhatIsAMan (talk) 10:49, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the delayed response. I just noticed the messages that you left on my talk page. I removed text that was either inaccurate or unrelated to the page's focus. As I’ve mentioned previously, I want to ensure that the content remains non-political, considering the page is specifically about olive trees and their significance in Judaism, Jewish history, and culture. I know that some editors want to push their own narrative and that Wikipedia already has a left leaning and rather pro Arab bias. We just want to keep this one out of political edit wars. We still appreciate your efforts to make the page better AhmedElMohamedi (talk) 12:44, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a great example:

"Over the 20th Century, The Jewish population inherited olive groves conquered or expropriated from the local native before and after the first Arab israeli war as well as established new olive plantations; Kibbutz movements also played a role in fostering the cultivation of olives."

This sounds like Palestinian Arabs are indigenous to the territory and that Jews (supposed white settler colonizers) came and just took everything.

That's exactly what I want to avoid. No narrative pushing.

I would replace it with:

"Over the 20th century, the Jewish population inherited olive groves that were conquered from Arabs during the civil war and the first Arab-Israeli war, while also establishing new olive plantations. The Kibbutz movements played a significant role in fostering the cultivation of olives." AhmedElMohamedi (talk) 13:04, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 2024

Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. A page you recently created may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for new pages, so it has been moved to where you can continue to work on it. Please consider using the Article Wizard or the Articles for Creation procedure. For more information about creating articles, you may want to read "Your first article". You may also want to read our introduction page to learn more about contributing. Thank you. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Ben-Arieh, Yehoshua (2020-03-09). The Making of Eretz Israel in the Modern Era: A Historical-Geographical Study (1799–1949). Walter de Gruyter GmbH & Co KG. ISBN 978-3-11-062640-7.
^ Encyclopaedia Judaica: Min-O. Encyclopaedia Judaica. 1996. ISBN 978-965-07-0219-9.
^ "Olive Oil Tradition |". Retrieved 2024-10-31.

[1] Ben-Arieh, Yehoshua (2020-03-09). The Making of Eretz Israel in the Modern Era: A Historical-Geographical Study (1799–1949). Walter de Gruyter GmbH & Co KG. ISBN 978-3-11-062640-7.

[2] Encyclopaedia Judaica: Min-O. Encyclopaedia Judaica. 1996. ISBN 978-965-07-0219-9.

[3] "Olive Oil Tradition |". Retrieved 2024-10-31.

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