User talk:Achamy

Welcome!

Hello, Achamy, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 12:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Irgun

Hi Achamy,

Regarding your recent edit: Being a very sensitive topic, I think a book is not a valid reference, we need something written by an official government body. Being curious, could you type the excerpt from the Schmidt book, where it confirms what you added to the article? Thanks! Nicolas1981 (talk) 02:55, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Nicolas.I added two news articles where the British Ambassador to Israel condemned a plaque commemorating Irgun by calling them a terrorist group... Could you provide me with a name for Schmidt book? I'm actually having trouble finding it in my library... I have a reference of Irgun being labeled as a terrorist group by Israel itself in 1948. Here are a number of other sources citing them as generally a terror group (not necessarily British). Though I found a reference saying that Churchill called Irgun a terrorist group but do not have the book to actually double check it myself: Martin Gilbert. Churchill and the Jews. p. 270.

Dr. Yvonne Schmidt (in en). Foundations of Civil and Political Rights in Israel and the Occupied Territories. pp. 254. ISBN 9783638944502.No 33 of 5708-1948 - 23 September 1948. http://books.google.com/books?id=51gNA4Go_lUC&lpg=PA254&ots=MTU_nhKFpv&dq=%22Prevention%20of%20Terrorism%20Ordinance%22%20%20Irgun&pg=PA254

Also, here is an article out of the university of Haifa labeling Ertzl (aka Irgun) as a terrorist group: Arie Perliger and Leonard Weinberg, Jewish Self Defense and Terrorist Groups Prior to the Establishment of the State of Israel: Roots and Traditions. "Totalitarian Movements & Political Religions", Vol. 4, No. 3, 100, (2003); http://web.archive.org/web/20080202073904/http://terrorismexperts.org/terrorism_research_roots1.htm

And here is an article by the New York Times labeling it as a terror group in 1948: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0E16F93D55147B93C4A81783D85F438485F9&scp=3&sq=terrorist+Irgun&st=p

I know its a contentious topic but... in most classes dealing with terrorism in the US and abroad (especially in the UK), the King David Bombing is cited as a key example in the mid-20th century and Irgun was the indisputable actor. At the least, its a paramilitary group that undertook SOME terrorist acts (Deir Yassin, King David, etc.)and was labeled by the British in 1948 as a terror group and is still strongly condemned by the UK. Achamy--Achamy (talk) 22:06, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello Achamy! Sorry, I had not read your message here, and now I realize my recent edit summary sounds harsher than I intended. I hope you don't get angry about it! What we need is not books or articles, but really official decrees. Did the UK maintain a list of designated terrorist organizations at that time? Just Winston Churchill saying something is not enough. I asked you an excerpt from the Schmidt book because you used it as a citation, but if I understood right, you don't have access to this book? Nicolas1981 (talk) 02:04, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Nick,

I'm not angry! No worries. ^_^.

I'm not sure a list of terrorist organizations was maintained by the United Kingdom at the time... Most of the references to them as a terrorist group I could find were via British condemnation of monuments and plaques commemorating Irgun today OR people of the time calling them a terrorist group (Parliament members etc.)... Apparently the United Kingdom condemned monuments towards Irgun members as glorifying terrorism... So they clearly see them as a historical terrorist movement. Its not on any current listings because the group has been disbanded and incorporated into the IDF.

Also, the Wikipedia article on the King David Hotel bombing is VERY well backed up with research. It seems to show that the British government sent a letter to Truman calling Irgun's attack on the King David Hotel an act of terrorism. Likewise the group is labeled a terrorist group by a member the British Parliament. Its also important to note that Israel labeled the group a terrorist organization once Israel became a state. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing#British_reactions

As far as the Schmidt book, I believe I wrote the wiki entry when I was in the library doing other research and came across it... So I do not have direct access to the text.Achamy (talk) 19:47, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 20:13, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I just went back to go change one. I always forget. bah.Achamy (talk) 20:15, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Abu-Sitta

Hi Achamy! I noticed that you have been adding information to articles based on a book called The Palestinian Nakba, 1948 by someone named Abu-Sitta. Can you please:

1. Provide a full citation using a template? I have found the book via ISBN, but it's hard to tell whether it's even a book or a paper or something else.
2. In the case of the Battle of Beersheba (1948), elaborate on where in Milstein's or Yitzhaki's works this information could be found? I have a number of works by both historians and can probably obtain more, but a specific reference would be very helpful.

Thanks, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 01:09, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Ynhockey ! I used to work at a private Middle East studies research nonprofit where I was responsible for their book collection. Anyways, I no longer work there or have access to the large collection of books I used to have! I have no records of the Milstein or Yitzhaki books. However I DO have the citation info for Abu-Sitta:

Salman H. Abu-Sitta, Palestinian Return Centre, London : Palestine Land Society, 2001 Achamy (talk) 02:22, 23 February 2011 (UTC)