User talk:6fourcollective

This is 6fourcollective's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jason Connor (May 18)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Marshelec was:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

The comment the reviewer left was:

The draft article is promising. However, Wikipedia sets high standards for biographies of living people. See: WP:BLP. The statements of fact in the article should generally be backed up by inline citations in the body of the text, to clearly demonstrate verifiability. See:WP:ILC. The content in the draft also currently contains many external links. These are generally not permitted in the body of the text, and should be removed or replaced with fully formatted citations. See: WP:ELPOINTS. Facebook is not considered a reliable source, so the current citations of Facebook pages should be removed or replaced. Also, there should not be two headings called "References". Wherever reasonably possible, citations should be complete with title, publisher, source date, author (second name, first name) (if available), and access-date.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jason Connor and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Marshelec (talk) 23:45, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, 6fourcollective! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Marshelec (talk) 23:45, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Jason Connor has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Jason Connor. Thanks! Marshelec (talk) 00:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Jason Connor has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Jason Connor. Thanks! Marshelec (talk) 22:08, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jason Connor (June 22)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Karnataka was:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jason Connor and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Karnataka (talk) 18:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Further work on your draft article

Hi, I am willing to assist with detailed suggestions for further work on the draft article about Jason Connor. If that would be useful, please reply on my talk page. However, I have begun to wonder if Wikipedia is the best platform for the stories about mountain bikers that you wish to write. This is because of the requirements to meet core Wikipedia standards, including verifiability and notability. You might find that creating a blog instead would be a lot easier. If you do decide to carry on with the article, and want some assistance, please get back to me. Regards, Marshelec (talk) 21:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Marshelec,

Okay so firstly, I have done my best to find reliable sources, and all results are from the governing bodies of the sport, but they do not seem to keep great records. Could you please help me with exactly what information is not reliable?

I want to get this article and the next ones I am working on to an acceptable state as they are notable athletes, they just don't get the exposure they deserve through the sport.

Secondly, I have contacted the owners of the images to gain permission to use them. so how do I amend this part of the process?

I have also deleted content/information that I can not find any reliable information about online, and stuck to facts that I can reference from an online source, either from the sporting bodies websites, or team websites and so on.

I would love to get this right so that I can start on the next one and hopefully gain a good understanding of this process so that the next athletes bios are easier and don't get denied.

Thank you for your willingness to help! Alex Jenkins (talk) 23:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned at one stage in one of my comments, writing biography articles for Wikipedia is quite challenging for a new editor. I would normally advise someone starting out with Wikipedia to build experience with adding to existing articles about things other than biography, then move to create new articles (other than biographies), and only then begin work on biographies (and in particular biographies of living people). It takes quite a while to become familiar with the standards required. Key references are WP:NBIO and WP:BLP.

For the article about Jason Connor, as far as I can see there is currently only a single citation that meets the criteria of providing significant coverage, being independent, and being published by a reliable source. This single source is the Waikato Independent article [1] from 2013. I have briefly searched for additional sources myself, and not found anything more of this kind of coverage.

The draft article has multiple citations of pages with significant coverage from the One Pure Racing website. However, that is "self-published" or at the very least not independent, so does not count towards what Wikipedia defines as "notability". The content from those pages can be used with care, but the key problem with regards to notability is the need for additional citations giving significant coverage that are from independent and reliable sources.

Key requirements about sources that support notability for Wikipedia purposes are set out in WP:GNG. This includes the statement:

'"Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected."

Note: Citations of results from multiple results websites provide support for achievements, but don't really say anything about the person. Such brief listings in tables of data are not considered "significant" coverage, and so generally don't count much towards notability.

In my opinion, one other in-depth newspaper article would be sufficient to establish notability in Wikipedia terms, in compliance with WP:GNG. Has there been any newspaper or magazine stories covering the career, injury history etc of Jason Connor since the Waikato Independent article in 2013. ? It is that kind of story that is "significant coverage". Finding such a story is the most important next step to getting this article over the line. There are other issues that still need to be addressed, but they are relatively minor compared with the key issue of "significant coverage". I hope that helps.

You are welcome to ping me for further queries.

Marshelec (talk) 00:08, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here is information that may help about a correspondence process to get permissions from original owners of images for use of images accepted by Wikimedia Commons: See: c:Volunteer_Response_Team. The process is somewhat cumbersome, but does work if you have the patience.

An alternative option that some original owners of images might find easier is to open an account with Flickr, then upload the image to Flickr, set the copyright/ permissions for the image in Flickr to "Attribution-Share-Alike", then advise you of the url in Flickr for their photo. You are then permitted to upload the image using the "Share images from Flickr" button that is part of the upload wizard in Wikimedia Commons. I have had moderate success with this approach. I briefly searched on Flickr for Jason Connor, but didn't find any images that looked like the subject of your article, so the owners of the images that you have contacted would need to upload the images themselves into Flickr, and proceed as I have outlined above.

A final option is for the owner of the image(s) to upload them into Wikimedia Commons themselves. However, it is a somewhat clunky process that can put people off. You already know about the upload wizard here: c:Special:UploadWizard.

Regards, Marshelec (talk) 01:05, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay awesome!

My first questions would be around the world record data... The article from Red Bull I thought would be regarded as quite notable no? and the official world records home website documenting his world record..?

I have found quite a few print media articles as I reached out to people in the sport and they pointed me in the right direction. There are quite a few independent news articles, but they are in print media, such as the Cambridge News Paper (5 articles around his racing and world record, and several other similar print medias) but they were not uploaded to the web.

The results are super hard, I have not found any other locations for results for Jason or the other athletes in this sport asides from this one - https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider27490/jason-connor/results/ But unfortunately it is missing a large amount of data also.

Images should be relatively easy as I have already contacted the owners of the images and requested permission. So it should not be hard to get them to do this.

Regards, Alex Alex Jenkins (talk) 01:22, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources do not need to be online. They just need to be published by a "reliable source". See: WP:SOURCE. If you have access to newspaper articles that are not online, but you can cite the name of the newspaper (or publication), title of the article, date of publication, then they are fine to use as a citation for related content in the Wikipedia article. Please add as many of such newspaper sources as you can for Jason Connor. (But no more than say 3 citations following any one sentence). The article from Red Bull is not great for establishing notability or providing content for the biography because it is an interview, and is therefore a primary source. It is not independent. A biographic article must not rely heavily on interviews - there must be independent (secondary) sources. Some content from interviews can be used, but it needs care. This essay is helpful in giving guidance about using interviews: WP:Interviews. Marshelec (talk) 04:07, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As a further point, it is necessary to try and put out of our minds our own ideas about what "notable" means. In Wikipedia it has a really specific meaning, related to the existence/availability of significant coverage in multiple independent and reliable published sources. It doesn't matter how famous we might think someone is (or should be). If there are insufficient published sources meeting the criteria, then for Wikipedia purposes, and an article about the subject is not justified. Marshelec (talk) 04:15, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft article, Draft:Jason Connor

Hello, 6fourcollective. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Jason Connor".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. ✗plicit 23:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]