User talk:2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9

Russian undesirable organizations table

I had to revert your changes to the layout of the table because (1) reliable sources had been deleted, (2) you nearly spammed links to websites of affected organisations, and (3) the format of the table does not have to match that of the Ministry of Justice. --Minoa (talk) 00:05, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Minoa:

> (1) reliable sources had been deleted

The references for some of organizations have been deleted since: (a) the primary and the most official reference is the table of Ministry of Justice (link already appears in the list or references), which is universal and valid for all items in the table. Currently, there are reference links to 25 items out of 106, which is just 23.5%.

> (2) you nearly spammed links to websites of affected organisations

What do you mean with "spammed"? I've arranges the ref. links just as it accepted by admins of the German Wiki (de-Wiki): the links to the foreign Wikis, along with the links to the external websites. I assumed, that the links rules are identical across all Wiki pages. How should be the links to external websites be arranged in the English Wiki?

> (3) the format of the table does not have to match that of the Ministry of Justice.

I just wanted to unify the table style across all wiki articles (EN, DE, RU, CS), to simplify the further table maintenance. IMO, it's also better if the Wiki table, which reflects the official table from the Ministry of Justice, has also similar look to the data source, to improve the user experience to the end-customer, which might want to work with both tables.

The biggest change I've contributed is the arranging the organization names: the original table of Ministry of Justice contains a lot of outdated and inconsistent information. In my version of table all names are updated, verified, and its representation is unified across EN, DE, RU, and CS Wikis: writings (the organization name is written in its original languages, added organizations' acronyms, links to the official website in case there is no wiki-article yet.

To conclude, I've invested a lot of time to bring the tables in the complete and consistent state across four Wikis, in case there are some particular requirements on en-Wiki, which prevent from my version to be published, let's fix it.

2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 06:51, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid you need to familiarize yourself with the relevant parts of WP:MOS before you continue editing the article. We do have the manual of style, which may very well be different from Wikipedias in other languages. Your edits do not seem to conform with it. Ymblanter (talk) 17:08, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link, I'll check this reference and will adjust the table style. 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 18:27, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've checked the manual and I have several questions:

1. Regarding external links, in case an organization doesn't have a Wiki-article, should I an organization be accompanied with the reference to its official website (the current state), or it's better to left the organization without any link to its external website at all?

2. Should the non-latin organization names be written in English with an original writing provided right after the English name? E.g.: CrimeaSOS (КримSOS)?

These are two main fixes I see need to be done. Please, let me know if you have any advices how to align the article with the en-Wiki guidelines.

P.S. It's really pity that even on Wikipedia there is no single style across all Wikipedias in other languages. 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 18:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The naming of non-English organizations has been aligned with en-Wiki Guidelines.

Please, let me know if something else can/should be adjusted. 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 20:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It may be better to leave the organization without any link to its external website. That is not what references are meant for. We also do not use references for interwiki links.
Non-latin organization names should be written in English only, without acronyms, unless there is a risk of confusion. The exception was the basis for why I provided a translation for People in Need and Free University of Latvia.

Most importantly, we do not need to copy the style of tables from other projects. Your edits came close to being disruptive because a lot of them did not follow WP:MOS, especially with the dates.

--Minoa (talk) 05:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Minoa:, there is some inconsistency: "Decembrists (German: Dekabristen)" but "Free University (Brīvā Universitāte)".

The consistent options are:

"Decembrists (German: Dekabristen)", "Free University (Latvian: Brīvā Universitāte)"
"Decembrists (Dekabristen)", "Free University (Brīvā Universitāte)"

Which one of them should be used? 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 06:30, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Option 1; I think I corrected that already? It can be easy to lose track there because the {{lang-de|Name}} and {{lang|de|Name}} syntaxes are very similar. --Minoa (talk) 06:36, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Minoa, yes, you used {{lang-de|Name}} instead of {{lang|de|Name}}, which is recommended in the guidelines.

BTW, is "style="width:85px"|" in the table column mandatory? This prevents from a table to automatically adjust the column width. 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 06:43, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, this is not mandatory. I personally prefer the fixed width, but we have some room here. Just make sure it does not get screwed in different versions (widescreeen desctop / mobile). Ymblanter (talk) 07:01, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Minoa,

also, some organizations are in English only, e.g.: "Volodymyr Muntyan "Renaissance" Charitable Foundation", while other are both in English and its national writing, e.g.: "For Free Russia (Za Wolną Rosję)".

What's the rule here? If The national name is on Latin letters, then write, otherwise - not? 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 06:36, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I guess if the national name is in Latin letters it is also automatically the English name? Or are there exceptions in the list? Ymblanter (talk) 07:02, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessary, e.g. "For Free Russia" vs. "Za Wolną Rosję". At least "Za Wolną Rosję" has been edited to "For Free Russia (Za Wolną Rosję)" 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:78A0:3A8:E0DA:E6D9 (talk) 08:13, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will try to have another look, but some entries will need local writing if there is a risk of confusion with similar named organisations, such as the risk of confusion between the Free University in Latvia, and the Free University of Berlin. --Minoa (talk) 09:04, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Minoa, regarding the case of the Free University in Berlin vs. the Free University in Riga, isn't a Country column, which should solve such confusion? Besides that, the link to the article should also prevent the collusion/confusion? 2A02:810D:13C0:3792:9D35:CA4A:CE9D:C91D (talk) 15:40, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, the country column or a wiki-link to a specific section of article would not solve the confusion. Accessibility reasons (screen readers). --Minoa (talk) 01:45, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Decision numbers and acronyms

The use of the {{ill}} template is understandable, and I hope those links will have an English equivalent soon, but why are you adding acronyms (e.g. OCCRP) back despite the fact that doing so is not necessary? There is a reason for keeping the table as simple as possible. --Minoa (talk) 17:08, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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