User talk:AirportUpdater/2016/February

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Nashville International Airport

Someone keeps removing Boutique Air, OneJet, and Corporate Flight Management from the list saying that these are charter flights. However, how can these be charter flights as they can be bookable to the public and they operate out of Concourse B (at least Boutique Air and OneJet, I don't know about CFM) as per https://www.flynashville.com/flights/Pages/airline-information.aspx. Took to the Talk:Nashville International Airport and WT:AIRPORTS. If they are charter flights, don't they belong in the charters section? Thanks! 97.85.118.142 (talk) 05:56, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are absolutely correct! OneJet and Boutique Air are indeed scheduled passenger flights. However, Corporate Flight Management seems to operate charter flights. CFM does operate some scheduled passenger flights, but only for other airlines such as GLO Airlines. Those people should not be deleting these routes completely. I have fixed Nashville International Airport's page by putting OneJet and Boutique Air in the scheduled flights section and CFM as charters. Thanks for noticing that! *AirportUpdater* (talk) 16:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@97.85.118.142: Hello again! It seems as though this particular IP user keeps deleting these same airlines and routes. I am trying to get the Admins to block this person for vandalism or get Nashville International Airport's page to be protected. So far, I haven't had any luck, but I'll keep trying. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 05:13, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@*AirportUpdater*: I have left MilborneOne (talk · contribs) a notice on their talk page regarding the issue: [[1]] MilborneOne is one of the few admins that focuses on editing aviation/airport related articles, so they'll probably have a better insight of the situation than the other admins. Thanks! Nodayrt (talk) 05:23, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Nodayrt: Ok, thank you very much! Yes, we need someone who understands our situation with Nashville International Airport. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 05:27, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Nodayrt: & @97.85.118.142: UPDATE: The page has been protected for 1 week. Nodayrt (talk) 17:04, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Norwegian flights from/to CDG

Hi,

You are misinterpreting Bloomberg's/USA Today's text: it says that flights between the USA and Paris will begin on July 29, not that all three routes will start on July 29. As you can see on the schedule, Norwegian will base 1 aircraft CDG, which will fly to JFK on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays, LAX on Tuesdays and Saturdays, and FLL on Thursdays. Airlineroute, that takes data directly from GDS, also shows this: http://airlineroute.net/2016/02/18/dy-cdg-jul16/

Slasher-fun (talk) 21:35, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You also wrote
"Added more accurate source" when replacing Norwegian website as a source by Bloomberg: I don't see how a press article can be more accurate that the airline itself.
"An airline's flight schedule does not tell when the flight begins": well, that's actually the whole point of an airline flight schedule.
Slasher-fun (talk) 21:41, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Slasher-fun: Hello, yes it does clearly show on the website you provided the beginning dates, but the websites I am looking at all show July 29th as the start date for all three flights. I'm not misinterpreting them. I can name even more websites for you if you want (local and national websites). Usually, when adding information for Wikipedia, a well-known and highly praised website/newspaper such as the USA Today or Bloomberg's will go ahead of other websites such as "airlineroute.net" which you provided. And it's not just these two sources. For example, http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/tourism/fl-norwegian-air-new-fll-route-20160218-story.html. Hope you understand where I'm coming from. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 21:49, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You probably have noticed in the past that news websites sometimes provide wrong information, right? ;-) (usually, one website or news agency publishes a wrong information, and every other website will copy/paste it without any additional research/verification). Slasher-fun (talk) 09:35, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, I have noticed that sometimes they provide wrong info, but usually it's not every website I look at. I don't think they're copying and pasting one another, they'd have a load of copyright issues. I'm still not sure when those flights begin, but the two dates aren't that far off (1 or two days) so it really doesn't matter much. Happy editing! *AirportUpdater* (talk) 14:55, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Slasher-fun: If you still don't understand where I'm coming from, that's fine. There's really not much difference between the dates; go ahead and put the dates you found. However, don't be surprised if in the future, other editors will change those dates to July 29th because it will happen in the many months till July/August. Just want to let you know. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 21:54, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Will do. Slasher-fun (talk) 09:35, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OneJet

With brands, we do not list the operating airline. Examples, DL Connection, UA Express, etc. OneJet is a brand, no need for operating airline. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 03:26, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Let's discuss this here. OneJet is absolutely a brand...same as DL connection. We don't list the operating airline when, like OneJet, the brand isn't actually an airline. This is something that was debated and changed years ago. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 03:30, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, this is what I wrote before I saw your second note:

OneJet is not the same as the main carrier's express brands. DL Connection/UA Express does not offer the flights, Delta/United does. Yes, DL Connection, UA Express are brands. OneJet, is NOT a brand, it is like the main carriers, except it rents planes from Pentastar Aviation. If OneJet had an express brand, then that would be what you're talking about. For airlines such as OneJet, GLO Airlines, etc. we must add the operator with it. That is the proper way to list these regional-type airlines.

...Also, I don't understand how it was debated "years" ago when this airline just began in April 2015. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 03:39, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Now, since Pentastar Aviation has been listed along with OneJet since the start of the airline, I am going to change it to how it was. If you still don't agree with the way it has been, please discuss in WP:Airports or WP:Airlines. Thanks, *AirportUpdater* (talk) 03:48, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The idea of listing the operating airline, when in fact it is unnecessary--in cases like this one where the brand (OneJet) does not in fact operate any flights, rather another airline does is what we decided a few years ago. That is when we stopped listing the carriers for DL Connection, UA Express, etc. Same with GOL Airlines, it is a brand, so you don't need to list the airline. If someone is further interested, they can click on the link to the GOL Airlines or OneJet's page, and read more. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 16:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, obviously you still don't agree. So, I would suggest to take this discussion to WP:Airports or WP:Airlines. These new airlines are not the same as what you "decided a few years ago" and they are not the same as DL Connection, UA Express, A Eagle, etc. By the way, the companies in which they rent planes from are NOT airlines. Please take discussion to the talk pages listed above. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 17:03, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I never said OneJet is an airline...it's not. It's a brand. I'm sorry you don't agree on this. Go ahead, list them however you want. Go through the WP:AIRPORTS/TALK archive and find the discussion. This would be a WP:AIRPORTs issue not a WP:AIRLINE's one. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 00:10, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OneJet is not an airline? Wow. That's the first time I've heard that. If you said that to the OneJet executives, they'd argue with you too. Just watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph_JW6sh6G0. Regarding the talk pages, OneJet is a NEW airline so it does NOT relate to the previous discussions that you had years ago. Consider starting a new discussion regarding this issue directly, not indirectly. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 03:01, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was confused as to what you were referring to. OneJet is not an airline in the sense of a traditional airline...they don't own or operate any of their fleet. They are an airline brand, that relies on other people for airplanes and crew. They aren't renting the planes from Pentastar -- Pentastar is providing the planes, crew, etc (a wet lease, I believe). Very similar to Direct Air. The point is -- I don't think it's important to list the operating airline. The argument made before was that the general public is probably looking towards Wikipedia for information on airlines/destinations -- and they couldn't care less, for the most part, who the operating airline is (they probably would find it confusing to see one brand, and then another operating airline). If they know nothing about aviation, the information is meaningless. If they are so curious about OneJet, all they have to do is click on the article to find out more (including learn that the flights are operated by another airline). You have to remember what Wikipedia is not. Another argument was that listing the operating airlines doesn't look as neat on the tables -- which is true. Some even argued that we shouldn't list the destinations at all -- that even that was too much information. You could make the argument that OneJet should have Pentastar Aviation listed as the operating airline. At the same time you could argue that listing Pentastar as the operating doesn't add anything to the article.I understand you are fairly new, and I have seen some of the other conversations you have had with other editors regarding airport's on your talk page. It's a niche field (airports/aviation on WP), and there is a very small group of us that frequently edit the articles. We welcome your support of the project and new ideas, but just remember why we are all here. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 04:00, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, listen, I see your point. You obviously feel very strongly that Pentastar Aviation shouldn't be listed along with OneJet. I will say this again, OneJet is NOT the same as DL Connection, UA Express and so on, so your "talk" in years past does not apply to these new business model airlines. They are trying to be just like the mainline carriers. If you watched the video I listed above, which obviously you didn't since your information doesn't add up to it, the CEO of OneJet clearly states that they are exactly the same as the mainline carriers and have to follow every rule that they do. Please take this discussion to WP:Airports or WP:Airlines so you can get opinions from other airport editors instead of just one. These new business model airlines such as OneJet and GLO are different, new, and innovative. I'm sure you'd agree that American, Delta, Southwest, Allegiant, etc. aren't brands and these new airlines are the same as these. It's been nice discussing with you here regarding this topic, but please take this to the talk pages so you can get some new opinions. I'd like to see others opinions as well on this issue. One last thing, whether I'm new or not (I wouldn't consider myself new, I've been around for close to a year now on this account and was editing as an IP for long before that), I'd say I've been around enough to know how things work and run here on Wikipedia. Happy editing! *AirportUpdater* (talk) 05:28, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pentastar Aviation has to follow every rule as the mainline carriers, yes (however, Pentastar is Part 380, not Part 121). I don't think you fully understand the situation. You say you've been around long enough to know how everything works...but your incident on WP:ANI and your talk page history tells a different story. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 16:19, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Listing Destinations That Go From Seasonal to Year Round

When a destination goes from seasonal to year round, the best way to list it is by removing it from the Seasonal category, and placing it in the year round with a "resumes: April X, 2016". It doesn't make sense to list it twice, once in the Seasonal list with an end date, and once in the year-round list with a begins date. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 20:34, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

True, but you have to be careful that the seasonal flights don't go through until the day that the year round service goes into effect. Then, the way I'm listing it is correct. *AirportUpdater* (talk) 20:56, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've adjusted them to reflect the true start date, as you can see in my recent edits. In situations like this, that is the way it generally should be handled. Avoid listing it twice as it is confusing. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 21:01, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

TB

Hello,

AirportUpdater*. You have new messages at Tofutwitch11's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time.

Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 21:38, 20 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]