User:Wobble/sandbox

Problems with the reliability of sources

These are the people claimed to belong to the haplogroup, and the sources used to justify this claim. My criticism of the sources appears in the footnotes.

William Harvey

His haplotype^{[unreliable source?]}^[1]
Harvey Y-DNA Genetic Project. ^{[unreliable source?]}^[2]
[2]^{[unreliable source?]}^[3]

The Wright Brothers

John C Calhoun and the old line of the Clan Colquhoun

"Calhoon, Calhoun, and others"(1987). ^[5]
"800 (EIGHT HUNDRED) YEARS OF COLQUHOUN, COLHOUN, CALHOUN, AND CAHOON FAMILY HISTORY In Ireland, Scotland, England, United States of America, Australia and Canada" published by Orval O. CALHOUN in 1976. ^[5]
can be found^{[not specific enough to verify]}^[6]
their DNA Project are E-V13.^{[not specific enough to verify]}^[7]

The Hatfield Family

3AC8Z is a descendant.^{[unreliable source?]}^[1]
Hatfield DNA surname project. (Kit number 79827 is decended from Ephraim Hatfield.)^{[unreliable source?]}^[8]

The Savard Hockey Dynasty in Quebec

Reliability

Most of these sources cannot be considered reliable. They come from non-peer reviewed and non-fact checked web forums or self published surname projects. Even the claims that descendants belong to a specific haplogroup are dependent on accepting that the descendant is (a) being honest and (b) really is a descendant. Mostly neither of these things have been scrutinised by a reliable second party fact checker. Often the data are used in what appears to be a very synthetic, with lots of assumptions on the part of the editor in question. I'm deeply worried if this is the level of reliability that Wikipedia articles should aim for.

Synthesis

There is a clear synthesis going on in the footnotes that verify these claims. These footnotes draw on several different sources to draw conclusions about member ship of the haplogroup by different individuals. In none of these sources is it explicitly claimed that any of these individuals belong to this haplogroup. That is a synthesis according to our no original research policy, which clearly states: "Synthesis occurs when an editor puts together multiple sources to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources. Even if published by reliable sources, material must not be connected together in such a way that it constitutes original research."

Harvey

The Harvey footnote for example uses information from five different sources to draw a conlcusion about the haplogroup that Harvey belonged to. That's a clear synthesis

Wright

The Wright footnote synthesises information from the Sorensen foundation and the Write sirname project to draw the conclusion that the Wright brothers belong to this haplogroup.

Calhoun

Footnote 47 uses the Calhoun surname project, the Sorensen foundation, and a book published in 1976 by Orval Calhoun to draw the conclusion that President Calhoun belonged to this haplogroup.

Relevance

It's difficult to see how these links are relevant to the E1b1b article in the first place. They are about genealogy, and mostly refer to STR data. Whereas STR data are very useful for determining family relatedness, Y-SNPs are not. The relevance to the haplogroup is not established. Just as it has not been established that Y-STR and family membership data are relevant to the haplogroup article, likewise it has not been established that membership of the haplogroup is useful for tracing family relatedness. The article doesn't anywhere explain how membership of this haplogroup has any utility for genealogy research. Indeed if one were to want to trace one's family relatedness, the last thing one would be advised to do would be to take a Y-SNP test because that sort of test is useless for genealogy. Furthermore how are we to establish the reliability of claiming to belong to a haplogroup when Y-SNPs have not been tested? It is of course perfectly permissible for any individual to take their Y-STR data and use Whit Athey's haplogroup predictor, [3] but does that establish membership of the haplogroup? Even if it does the predictor has been used by individuals who have simply posted their estimated haplogroup online. How many of these individuals have been SNP tested? Has this been published in a reliable source?

Footnotes

^ ^a ^b Y search is not reliable, anyone can post data there, no fact-checking at all.
^ Self published source, not fact checked
^ ^a ^b discussion group/forum/chat room, these cannot be considered reliable sources.
^ This is simply a list of Y-STR genotyping results, it does not support the contention that the family participates in the project, although they may well do so.
^ ^a ^b Reliable source but irrelevant to placement in E1b1b
^ May be a good source, but there is nothing to link this set of data to the President mentioned. The family trees that come with the data don't go as far back as the President. Don't mention E1b1b at all, it is a Y-STR haplotype and not SNP typed.
^ A very misleading statement. The link doesn't point to any test results. A little browsing around the project shows that most of the results are given as E1b1b1, (E-M35) two are given as E1b1b1a (E-M78) and a single one as E1b1b1a2 (E-V13). In addition there are a number of other haplogroups that belong to this group, Q, R1b1b2, R1a and G2a.[1] The statement is very misleading. These projects are run by members of the family, they are not reliable sources of informaton, they are not fact checked and are not produced by recognised authorities.
^ Again an unreliable source, with no fact checking. These projects are set up by non-experts who are not recognised authorities. So what we have is a someone who claims to be descended from a famous person on a website. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. Is this the level of authority Wikipedia is aiming for?
^ a faimly tree which has no reliability at all. who has fact checked this? Is it from a reliable source?
^ Possibly relevant to an external links section
^ doesn't establish reliability
^ relevant to an external links section of the Savard family article?

[ysearch-1] Y search is not reliable, anyone can post data there, no fact-checking at all.

[dead-2] Self published source, not fact checked

[chat-3] scussion group/forum/chat room, these cannot be considered reliable sources.

[4] This is simply a list of Y-STR genotyping results, it does not support the contention that the family participates in the project, although they may well do so.

[irrelevant-5] Reliable source but irrelevant to placement in E1b1b

[6] May be a good source, but there is nothing to link this set of data to the President mentioned. The family trees that come with the data don't go as far back as the President. Don't mention E1b1b at all, it is a Y-STR haplotype and not SNP typed.

[7] A very misleading statement. The link doesn't point to any test results. A little browsing around the project shows that most of the results are given as E1b1b1, (E-M35) two are given as E1b1b1a (E-M78) and a single one as E1b1b1a2 (E-V13). In addition there are a number of other haplogroups that belong to this group, Q, R1b1b2, R1a and G2a.[1] The statement is very misleading. These projects are run by members of the family, they are not reliable sources of informaton, they are not fact checked and are not produced by recognised authorities.

[8] Again an unreliable source, with no fact checking. These projects are set up by non-experts who are not recognised authorities. So what we have is a someone who claims to be descended from a famous person on a website. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. Is this the level of authority Wikipedia is aiming for?

[9] y tree which has no reliability at all. who has fact checked this? Is it from a reliable source?

[10] Possibly relevant to an external links section

[11] sn't establish reliability

[12] relevant to an external links section of the Savard family article?

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