User:Whiteguru/Securitas depot robbery
Second Opinion only
Talk:Securitas depot robbery/GA1
Original Review
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Reviewer: GhostRiver (talk · contribs) 17:49, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Hello! I'll be reviewing this article to help reduce the good article nomination backlog and to gain points in the WP:WIKICUP. Although quid pro quo is not required, if you fancy returning the favor, I have a list of articles in need of review here. — GhostRiver 17:49, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Great thanks for taking this on Ghostriver - looking forward to working with you again Mujinga (talk) 22:24, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Infobox and lede
[edit]- With the opening paragraph, I think the first sentence should say it was the UK's largest cash robbery, and then the part about the extra 154 million should be after what they did take
- I prefer the current structure Mujinga (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- Just read through this article and then saw it was up for review so I thought I’d add my two cents worth. I think it’s definitely worth noting that it’s the largest ever robbery in the opening sentence. It’s the defining point of the event.Xx78900 (talk) 10:06, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Xx78900 thanks for dropping by, I've made some replies. If the largest cash robbery bit was to go in the first sentence, how do you see the first paragraph working, something like this?
The Securitas depot robbery was the United Kingdom's largest cash heist. It occurred in Tonbridge, Kent, England, beginning with a kidnapping on the evening of 21 February 2006 and ending in the early hours of 22 February. The criminals left the depot with almost £53 million and left behind another £154 million only because they did not have the means to transport it
- The claim would rest on Criminology Theory, Research, and Policy. But that's dated 2006 so then it's hard to say it's still the largest, for some reason it's hard to find a more recent source for that. Mujinga (talk) 11:24, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- Just read through this article and then saw it was up for review so I thought I’d add my two cents worth. I think it’s definitely worth noting that it’s the largest ever robbery in the opening sentence. It’s the defining point of the event.Xx78900 (talk) 10:06, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- I prefer the current structure Mujinga (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
They tricked their way inside the depot and armed with weapons including AK-47 assault rifles and a Škorpion submachine gun, they tied up fourteen workers.
Awkward syntax with the lead-in between the trickery and the capturingAs of 2016, £32 million had not been recovered and several suspects were still on the run.
Source conflicts the second part; most recent ref saying people are still on the run is from 2011
Depot
[edit]- Comma after "Debden, Epping Forest" per MOS:GEOCOMMA
- "which both held new currency"
- "and it had built the depot at" → "in a depot constructed at"
- Split sentence after "in 1980", then "Barclays chose the location because..."
- Should meters be the default template and then yards, the imperial unit, in parentheses?
- {{EngvarB|date=July 2014}} used on the article. Template tells – for non-specific but not N. American spelling ... Article Talk should say "Use British English"
£20 notes came in red £5,000
Missing a couple of words- "Since the family" → "Since his family"
Conspiracy
[edit]- Any name for the gang?
- "Albanians Bucpapa and Hysenaj were childhood friends who had met at school in Bajram Curri although they did not mention this in court, at first claiming not to know each other at all." → "The Albanian Bucpapa and Hysenaj were childhood friends who had met at school in Bajram Curri. They did not mention this in court, however, instead claiming not to know each other at all."
- Link mixed martial arts
- cage fighter redirects to mixed martial arts but maybe it makes more sense to link "mixed martial arts" Mujinga (talk) 17:14, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- "As well as" → "In addition to"
- Is there a better synonym for "signed up"? Enroled? Enlisted?
- "end of 2005 was offered work at the depot"
- "to buy" → "to purchase"
- "device, planning to give it" → "device with the intention of giving it"
- "managed to do precisely that" → "did precisely that"
- "which was later used by Hysenaj" → "which Hysenaj later used"
- See above about use of metric vs. imperial units
Robbery
[edit]- "window and asked" → "window, asking"
- Specify time zone for 01:00
- Use conversion template for "7.5 tonne"
- Unclear why "airlock" is in quotes here
- it's not actually an airlock, as in there isn't a change in atmospheric pressure between the rooms Mujinga (talk) 17:23, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- "The whole" → "The entire"
Lynn Dixon and her son, fearful of being killed, were also put in a cage
Awkward phrasing; the first half makes it sound like they are about to actively do something out of fear of being killed, whereas the second half says something was done to them
Investigation and arrests
[edit]- "by organised crime" → "by organised criminals"
- In the source, the Assistant Chief Constable says "This is organised crime at its top level. This was planned and executed with military precision" Mujinga (talk) 17:27, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- Yes but that’s said in a different grammatical case. The concept of organised crime didn’t plan the heist. Xx78900 (talk) 10:23, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- but organised crime is a thing, as indeed is British firms (organised crime). "organised criminals" isn't a thing Mujinga (talk) 11:00, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- Yes but that’s said in a different grammatical case. The concept of organised crime didn’t plan the heist. Xx78900 (talk) 10:23, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- In the source, the Assistant Chief Constable says "This is organised crime at its top level. This was planned and executed with military precision" Mujinga (talk) 17:27, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've seen the S in South London capitalized; our article isn't helpful on it, as "South" is only used to start a sentence
- Comma after "Four days after the heist"
- I would also change “Kent Police said” to “Kent Police reported/stated”, as organizations can’t ‘say’ anything.Xx78900 (talk) 10:41, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Also the word ‘loot’ feels strange to me. I would say ‘the stolen money’Xx78900 (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- When you say ‘company director Ian Bowrem’, are you just providing his profession? Or was it a company linked to the heist?Xx78900 (talk) 10:47, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Trials
[edit]- Just linking "judge" feels as if it borders on MOS:EASTEREGG; can probably be written out to "High Court Judge"
- Instead of parentheses around "Hysenaj had not picked up the phone ...", use a semicolon
- No comma needed after "and one year later"
- Given the line ‘suggesting he was the inside man’, should there be a line where prosecutors/police deduce that the heist could only have occurred with the cooperation of an inside man? And how did it emerge that it wasn’t him? Xx78900 (talk) 10:49, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Later events
[edit]- "published a book about the event in 2009"
- Comma after "Ten years after the robbery"
- "would have quickly" → "was likely"
- The former detective superintendent is reported as saying in the source: The money would certainly have been taken out of the country after the heist and would have long since disappeared into the murky world of international criminal finance [..] "The money from Securitas is long gone" so I think it's good to emphasise how it rapidly disappeared Mujinga (talk) 17:40, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- "Several people" → "Several individuals"
are thought
runs afoul of MOS:DATED and needs a "as of" qualifier- "In another shooting, Paul Allen was severely injured" → "Paul Allen was severely injured in another shooting"
- It actually does not read well.
Similar incidents
[edit]- "had been targeted previously" → "had previously been targeted"
- Shouldn't this previous robbery be in the "Depot" section as background information?
- Reference [33] (Glendinning) doesn't appear to mention either that it was the biggest in history or mention the Tonbridge raid at all
References
[edit]- [25] is marked as a permanent dead link
- [28] is marked as an unreliable source by my scripts
General comments
[edit]- Images are properly licensed and relevant
- No stability concerns in the revision history
- Earwig score looks good, WP:LIMITED and all (you can't really rephrase criminal charges)
That's all I've got! I'll leave comments on the FAC later today, as Fridays are my light teaching days on the block schedule. Please feel free to ping me with questions, and let me know when you're finished! — GhostRiver 17:47, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- @GhostRiver: Thanks a lot for the careful reading, I believe I've answered everything, see what you think. Mujinga (talk) 18:22, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay, Mujinga. A few remaining comments. — GhostRiver 17:55, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- The use of page numbers in the references is inconsistent. In the "Depot" section, for instance, I see both "33, 34" and "35-6". Per MOS:PAGERANGE, consecutive pages should always be listed as full numbers with an en dash, so they'd be "33-34" and "35-36", respectively. This does not apply for cases like "31, 33" because those numbers are non-consecutive.
- In "Conspiracy", "As well as being a cage fighter" → "In addition to being a cage fighter" still
- "Signed up" still reads a bit informally
- "attached it to a belt, then Hysenaj used it" → "attached it to a belt, which Hysenaj then used"
- Per MOS:IMAGELOCATION, the map of Kent should probably be right-aligned
- MOS:DATED issue isn't fixed with "are suspected by police"; present-tense statements like this need date qualifiers (i.e. "As of X date")
- Still don't like the "In another shooting," phrasing
- The Paul Allen shooting happened three years ago, should probably include an update on his condition, if one exists
@GhostRiver: I've answered everything, please see what you think when you get a chance Mujinga (talk) 13:03, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
@GhostRiver: Hiya don't want to pressure you but I'd like to finish this off, shall we say if there are no more comments in a week's time then we agree to close the review and I'll move to peer review? Since I'd like to take this to FA I'm not especially fussed about it being a GA and I think I've incorporated a lot of your comments already Mujinga (talk) 13:39, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
Second opinion requested
[edit]As nominator I'm requesting a second opinion, since the article has been on hold for 57 days and in my opinion the article is nearly there. The reviewer has had issues IRL and has not commented here in a month, whilst they have been making limited edits elsewhere. They are not replying to pings or talk page messages. Mujinga (talk) 08:46, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Second Opinion
[edit]Instructions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment
Starts GA Second Opinion. Hopefully get to this in the next few days. Thank you --Whiteguru (talk) 03:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Observations
[edit]Document statistics
- HTML document size: 167 kB
- Prose size (including all HTML code): 40 kB
- References (including all HTML code): 59 kB
- Wiki text: 44 kB
- Prose size (text only): 22 kB (3850 words) "readable prose size"
- References (text only): 6609 B
- Page is >100 kb - see WP:SIZERULE
- Page created 23 February 2006
- Total number of edits = 784 by 289 editors
- Page has 61 watchers
- 90 Day page views = 18,492 with a daily average of 203 views
- 20 bot edits on page; no visits by ClueBot NT indicating no apparent vandalism
- Majority of edits on this page occurred during 2022
- IABot has been on the page twice
Images
- File:Securitas Depot, Vale Road, Tonbridge, Kent - geograph.org.uk - 1124839-Optimised.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic license.
- File:Kent UK location map.svg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license.
- File:Hook and Hatchet Pub, Hucking - geograph.org.uk - 1154886.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic license.
- File:Central Criminal Court - geograph.org.uk - 650721.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic license.
- All images found to be correctly captioned with appropriate use licences and attribution
References
- Comments on references noted and sorted satisfactorily.
Overall
[edit]- All the previous reviewer's commentary and subsequent corrections have been noted
- Some observations on the language issue are offered
- The issue of Paul Allen's injuries does not read well; however, this is not a show stopper
- The matter of the previous heists merits consideration; however, this is not a show stopper - I leave both these matters in the hands of Mujinga who has done yeoman work in responding and corrections.
Good Article Criteria
[edit]- The article should be clearly written, in good prose, with correct spelling and grammar.
- The article should be factually accurate according to reliable sources
- The article should broadly cover the topic without unnecessary digressions.
- The article should be stable, with no ongoing edit wars.
- The article should comply with image use policy.
- The article is free of obvious copyright violations.
- There being no failures of the Six Good Article Criteria the Second Opinion is complete and the article is raised to GA status. --Whiteguru (talk) 23:12, 10 June 2022 (UTC)