User:Meodipt/2012 talk archive

New Opioid Pages

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9559/vimidole.gif Viminol derivative that wasn't released but would have been name Vimidole. Mu agonist some 318x morphine in potency. Sadly, they never got chance to try the o-F & O-TFM analogues as these are generally mor potent than the o-Cl. Helps understand the QSAR of this class (see US Patent 4960788). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.243.179 (talk) 11:40, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

You previously stated that an opioid should be in use of have some significance to be worth having a page but I've found a Chinese material used widely that is a piperazine derivative. It's basically an unbridged version of the szaprocin class (with a butanamide moiety). It's used much like tramadol is used in the west (it was trialled for detox in the US). I found papers showing that adding a methyl (or two) at the 2/5 position (where the ethylene bridge is on azapricin) increased activity. I am happy to do the page, presuming you think it should be included and you tell me what software the images of the molecule are drawn in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.243.179 (talk) 12:21, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Certainly this compound will be notable enough for inclusion if it has been trialled in the US and actually used medically in China. Do you have a link to the structure or any references? It probably has a name or code number somewhere that you can name the page with. Meodipt (talk) 20:34, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

You mean this compound, AP-237 listed here? Yes there are multiple references, of course you can make a page for that. I use BKChem to draw my structures with :-) Meodipt (talk) 20:39, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

That is the structure I got of the Chinese site. I found an article on it's trial for detox in a US veterans hospital. It appears to be a partial agonist. Reaxys gives examples of the mono & dimethyl substitutions which is 1/2 way between AP-237 & azaprocin, I guess (in structure, not in potency). Looks like nobody tried a p-NO2 as per 'nitroazaprocin'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.243.179 (talk) 18:21, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

BTW it's called 布桂嗪, buccinazine (Fortanodyne) or AP-237. There are a fair number of english-language papers on it's action. In Chinese medicine, it's classed as 1/3 morphine in potency (SC/IV). 50 & 100mg in 1ml ampoules. Also comes as 30 & 60mg tablets. Nausea, dizziness and/or sedation are common side-effects. Tolerance & dependence occur on repeated administration. Seems to be first-line pain medication in cancer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.243.179 (talk) 10:08, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Another opioid that, while not widely know, seriously increases the understanding of other opioids (nortilidine & ketazocine for example) is 10-hydroxymorphine. Lenz makes a few mentions of hydroxys and ketones in this position. If you overlay levorphanol with nortilidine (but don't use the SMILES on the page - it's wrong!) you will see what I mean. I've started to add references to related compounds in the talk sections. I was impressed that an open-chain analogue like viminol can, with the right modification, reach >x300 morphine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.243.179 (talk) 11:31, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

JWH-176

Hey again, I was reading the references for the JWH-171 article and I noticed that there was no mention of JWH-171 in the cited material. I think that the picture uploaded was actually of JWH-176 and other than the K_i value of 51.0nM, all the info in the article was correct for JWH-176 (whose K_i is 26.0nM). I was just going to correct the K_i value then move this page to JWH-176, but I wanted to check with you first since I haven't been able to find any info about the actual JWH-171. Enix150 (talk) 01:49, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I think you may be correct, as I've seen other people say the wikipedia article has them the wrong way round. I think JWH-171 and JWH-176 are meant to be the pair of E/Z enantiomers but I was never quite confident I'd drawn the correct one. As I recall back when I made the article one or more of the review articles had them mixed up so there was disagreement between sources and I wasn't sure which one was right. But if you have it figured out then go for it! Meodipt (talk) 03:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

File:7-PET.svg listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:7-PET.svg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. MGA73 (talk) 14:13, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Arketamine

I noticed your addition of Arketamine to the list of arylcyclohexylamines, but I haven't been able to find any literature about it yet. I've read that Esketamine is just the (S)-isomer, so does that mean Arketamine only the (R)-isomer? It was only after a typo'd google search that this dawned on me... Enix150 (talk) 11:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes arketamine is simply the pure (R)-enantiomer, in the same way esketamine is the pure (S)-enantiomer. Not used in medicine in the same way as the pure (S) isomer, but the isolated (R) isomer is used enough in research that I'd imagine a page could be written about it at some point. Meodipt (talk) 11:55, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Image request

Hi Meodipt, I need a picture of 6'-GNTI – an isomer of File:5'-GNTI.png. Could you do me the favor to draw it? The compound is mentioned in Waldhoer M (2005), PNAS 9050. Hm20 (talk) 18:10, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Sure, here ya go, assuming I got the numbering correct on the indole ring!! Meodipt (talk) 07:32, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

List of opioids

Hi. I asked user:el3ctr0nika to take a look at List of opioids and he mentioned You. Can you also take a look at the list? I tried to find refs to as many items as possible, bot some are mentioned only in the List.--RicHard-59 (talk) 19:09, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Stems

I thought you might like it. :) And yeah, lots of red links. 3,127 of them to be exact. x_x el3ctr0nika (Talk | Contribs) 03:49, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case

Your name has been mentioned in connection with a sockpuppetry case. Please refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nuklear for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to cases before editing the evidence page. — KC9TV 04:54, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Hey there!

Hey! Couldn't help but notice that we have fairly similar interests and you have made contributions to many of the areas I have/plan to contribute to. Just wanted to say hi and thanks. Are you a published scientist in real life? BaeyerDrewson (talk) 09:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi there. Indeed we do seem to have quite similar areas of interest - nice editing so far I must say! No, I still don't have anything published, our current research is more likely to result in a patent filing than an article in the scientific literature. But one day I'd definitely like to publish something I think  :-) Meodipt (talk) 08:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Hyperandrogenism

Heya. I actually didn't do that page (I did do the hyperestrogenism and hypoandrogenism ones though); I just added a sentence or two to it. But thanks anyway for the heads up. That being said though, I'm reading a lot of stuff on this XYY syndrome that seems to contradict what you said. For instance, see these excerpts from the XYY syndrome article:

Severe acne was noted in a very few early case reports, but dermatologists specializing in acne now doubt the existence of a relationship with 47,XYY.[7]

Testosterone levels (prenatally and postnatally) are normal in 47,XYY males.[8] Most 47,XYY males have normal sexual development and usually have normal fertility.[1][2][9][10]

Aggression is not seen more frequently in 47,XYY males.[1][2]

Then, in December 1965 and March 1966, Nature and The Lancet published the first preliminary reports by British cytogeneticist Patricia Jacobs and colleagues at the MRC Human Genetics Unit at Western General Hospital in Edinburgh of a chromosome survey of 315 male patients at The State Hospital outside Carstairs, Lanarkshire—Scotland’s only special security hospital for the developmentally disabled—that found nine patients, ages 17 to 36, averaging almost 6 ft. in height (avg. 5'11", range: 5'7" to 6'2"), had a 47,XYY karyotype, and mischaracterized them as aggressive and violent criminals.[27][28][29][30]

Telfer found five tall, developmentally disabled XYY boys and men in hospitals and penal institutions in Pennsylvania, and since four of the five had at least moderate facial acne, reached the erroneous conclusion that acne was a defining characteristic of XYY males.[31] After learning that convicted mass murderer Richard Speck had been karyotyped, Telfer not only incorrectly assumed the acne-scarred Speck was XYY, but reached the false conclusion that Speck was the archetypical XYY male—or "supermale" as Telfer referred to XYY males outside of peer-reviewed scientific journals.[32]

In December 1968, the Journal of Medical Genetics published the first XYY review article—by Michael Court Brown,[38] director of the MRC Human Genetics Unit—which reported no overrepresentation of XYY males in nationwide chromosome surveys of prisons and hospitals for the developmentally disabled and mentally ill in Scotland, and concluded that studies confined to institutionalized XYY males may be guilty of selection bias, and that long-term longitudinal prospective studies of newborn XYY boys were needed.[27]

In May 1969, at the annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, Telfer and her Elwyn Institute colleagues reported that case studies of the institutionalized XYY and XXY males they had found convinced them that XYY males had been falsely stigmatized and that their behavior may not be significantly different from chromosomally normal 46,XY males.[39]

In December 1970, at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), its retiring president, geneticist H. Bentley Glass, cheered by the legalization of abortion in New York,[50] envisioned a future where pregnant women would be required by the government to abort XYY "sex deviants".[41][51] Mischaracterization of the XYY genetic condition was quickly incorporated into high school biology textbooks[41][52] and medical school psychiatry textbooks,[41][53] where misinformation still persists decades later.[30]

In November 1974, Science for the People went public with their objections to the Boston XYY study in a press conference and a New Scientist article alleging inadequate informed consent, a lack of benefit (since no specific treatment was available) but substantial risk (by stigmatization with a false stereotype) to the subjects, and that the unblinded experimental design could not produce meaningful results regarding the subjects' behavior.[55]

In August 1976, Science published a retrospective cohort study by Educational Testing Service psychologist Herman Witkin and colleagues that screened the tallest 16% of men (over 184 cm (6'0") in height) born in Copenhagen from 1944–1947 for XXY and XYY karyotypes, and found an increased rate of minor criminal convictions for property crimes among sixteen XXY and twelve XYY men may be related to the lower intelligence of those with criminal convictions, but found no evidence that XXY or XYY men were inclined to be aggressive or violent.[56]

In July 1999, Psychological Medicine published a case-control study by Royal Edinburgh Hospital psychiatrist Michael Götz and colleagues that found an increased rate of criminal convictions among seventeen XYY men identified in the Edinburgh newborn screening study compared to an above-average-IQ control group of sixty XY men, which multiple logistic regression analysis indicated was mediated mainly through lowered intelligence.[60]

Also, see this excerpt from this book:

Two other types of genotypic abnormalities of sex chromosomes, which fail to have names, are XYY males and XXX females. Although XYY men do not exhibit any characteristic set of abnormal phenotypes, they are often taller than average males. Many XYY boys have learning disabilities, and somee fraction of both XYY boys and men may have behavioral problems. ALthough the great majority of XYY men lead normal lives, the frequency of XYY men is increased in various kinds of prison populations, especially among inmates greater than six feet in height. The frequency of XYY men is 1/1000 among newborn males but may be as high as five times that in general prison populations; it has even been reported to be as high as ten times that frequency in one juvenile prison population. More strikingly, if attention is restricted to male prisoners over sex feet tall, the frequency of XYY males has been estimated to be as high as 10-20%.

However, the proposal that extra testosterone in XYY men leads to aggressive behaviors that send them to prison is not supported by the evidence. Most XYY men are never sent to prison, and those XYY men who are sent to prison are not always, or even usually, incarcerated for violent offenses. Rather, they are more often jailed for repetitive violations of probation agreements, possession of stolen property, writing bad checks, etc. The simple conclusion is that having an extra Y chromosome may predispose some men to get into trouble with the law, but it does not make them more violent. Indeed, it may be the case that the tendency of XYY males to end up incarcerated may be less reflective of an influence of an extra Y chromosome on criminal aggression, and more the result of learning difficulties created by the extra X chromosome. Indeed, in any instance in which we find that a particular genotype is more common in a particular population, we need to be very careful in determining what the precise phenotype is that actually correlates with the genotype in question.

And some more studies that seem to support that androgen levels are normal (or even slightly low) in 47,XYY males (#1, #2, #3):

No difference could be demonstrated between the plasma testosterone levels in 17 males with the 47,XYY karyotype and appropriately selected controls. Significantly higher levels of testosterone were recorded in both 47,XYY and 46,XY males at the maximum security hospital than in males with both karyotypes in other hospitals and in the general population.

[...] whereas the sex hormone secretion of the 47,XYY boys remained normal.

Serum luteinizing and follicle-stimulating hormones and testosterone levels were studied in 11 patients with 47-XYY chromosomes [...] serum testosterone levels were somewhat low in comparison to normal men, although the difference was not significant.

On the other hand though, this excerpt from this book is seemingly more in support of what you said (though they don't clarify in regards to the rate of violent crimes versus non-violent crimes):

No syndrome has generated more attention in behavioral cryotogenetics than the XYY syndrome. Early accounts of XYY males labeled the condition Jacob's criminal syndrome, but this label was later dropped (Woodward, 1992). The XYY male is not a "supermale," nor is he a homicidal maniac. He is, however, significantly more likely than XY males to evidence pathological exaggeration of male-typical behavioral traits. Normal XY males are often accused of being insensitive to feelings and incapable of making commitments; and in this sense, XYY males are quintessentially male (Money, 1986:81). XYY males are significantly more likely than XY males to be impulsive, enuretic, short-tempered, to have a PIQ > VIQ intellectual profile, and to show atypical brain-wave patterns (Hoyenga & Hoyenga, 1979:38; Schiavi, Theilgaard, Owen & White, 1988). Psychometric testing has shown that XYY males had lower levels of emotional stability, less mature self-concepts, and lower tolerance for inappropriate responses than a matched group of XY males (Noel & Revil, 1974).

Plasma testosterone concentrations are usually found to be significantly higher [in XYY men] than in matched samples of XY men, but testosterone levels do not appear to distinguish between XYY men who had and who had not committed a violent offense (Schiavi, Theilgaard, Owen, & White, 1988). Although most XYY males lead fairly normal lives, a large Danish sample found that XYY males are imprisoned or in psychiatric hospitals at rates exceeding their incidence in the general population (1.24 per 1,000) by 7.0 and 2.6 times, respectively (Nielsen & Christensen, 1974). Although there have been studies in which the rate of XYY males found in prisons did not significantly exceed the rate of XYY males in the general population, a survey of thirty-five studies of XYY males in institutions led Hook (1973:143) to conclude that "there is no question that the prevalence rate of XYYs is markedly increased over baseline." Another study of males at the top 16 percent of the height distribution (XYY males tend to be taller than XY males) found XYY males to be most criminal (Witkin et al., 1976).

In any case, regardless of the situation with XYY males (just thought I would let you know about all of the above for the sake of factual accuracy), I don't at all doubt that heightened androgen levels are/may be associated with increased impulsive and aggressive tendencies though. Also, any of these symptoms found in women: "acne, scalp hair loss (androgenic alopecia), excessive facial and body hair (hirsutism), high libido"; aren't exactly effects of hyperandrogenism that I would imagine most males would be particularly happy about either (with the possible exception of the last one in many cases though; I admit, personally, I'm probably biased against it). I'm kind of trying to quit Wikipedia though (well, actually, the computer/internet in general; time to actually do something with my life, yay), so I don't think I'll tend to the page. As a rule I'm only really allowing myself to make relatively minor and infrequent edits to Wikipedia now. That being said, I suppose it wouldn't take much to adjust the article to be inclusive of males as well though, so I don't know, maybe I will just go ahead and add a small paragraph or so on the matter.

P.S.: Sorry for the "Great Wall of Text", lol.

P.P.S: If you could, message me on Facebook from now on, or I might not see your messages for a long time (since I deleted all the pages on my watchlist (even user pages) and disabled e-mail notifications of changes to watched pages). Just a heads up.

Interesting, looks like my understanding of it is a bit antiquated these days! I suppose its just one of those things that would be covered differently if I was doing the same uni papers now, would have been ten years ago now I was taught that thing about XYY men! Meodipt (talk) 11:28, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. :-P el3ctr0nika (Talk | Contribs) 22:32, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

PMID on LY-487,379

Hi, you created the LY-487,379 article back in 2009. This cite has an invalid PMID of 190790739, and the citation bot seems to have filled Template:Cite pmid/190790739 with something else. Do you know what the correct PMID is so that I can clean this up? Thanks Rjwilmsi 13:27, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Weird, somehow the PMID managed to get an extra 9 on the end. Probably a cut-and-paste error when I wrote it originally seeing as the page history doesn't show the correct reference as having ever been present! Have fixed it now anyway  :-) Meodipt (talk) 23:43, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, these things can happen. I've tagged Template:Cite pmid/190790739 for deletion to complete the cleanup. Rjwilmsi 07:27, 5 July 2012 (UTC)