Jump to content

User:Governor Sheng/sandbox/Our Lady of Medjugorje/Controversial apparitions and messages

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Controversial apparitions and messages

[edit]

There are several apparitions and messages from the alleged Madonna, that caused controversy. These visions and messages were recorded by Vicka's diaries.

Herzegovina Case

[edit]

While Friar Tomislav Vlašić was still a chaplain in Medjugorje, and Friars Ivica Vego and Ivan Prusina, who refused to obey the Papal decree Romanis Pontificibus and leave the parishes, were chaplains in the parish of Saints Peter and Paul in Mostar, Vicka allegedly received messages from the Maddona from 19 December 1981 until 29 September 1982, and recorded them in her diary.[1]

On 21 September Fr. Ivan Prusina, along with other Franciscans, with the help of the crowd, violently expelled diocesan priests from the parish. Because of his disobedience, Fr. Ivan Prusina had his priestly jurisdiction revoked by Bishop Pavao Žanić on 9 October 1980. Honorius Pontoglio, the General Vicar of the Order of Friars Minor expelled Fr. Ivan Prusina from the Order on 29 January 1982.[2]

The Madonna allegedly told Vicka that Fr. Ivan Prusina and Fr. Ivica Vego "are not guilty of anything" in the matter.[3][4] On 15 January 1982, the bishop invited the alleged seers to his residence to ask them were there any messages from the Madonna on the issue, and they replied that there are not. However, on 3 April 1982, the seers came to the bishop to tell him that the Madonna scolded them for not telling the truth and that she requests that the two friars remain in Mostar and continue to celebrate masses and hear confessions. Tomislav Vlašić took responsibility for the lies of the seers telling the bishop he instructed them not to tell the truth because the bishop might dispute the authenticity of the apparitions.[2]

On 21 June 1983, one of the seers, Ivan Dragičević, sent a threatening message from the Maddona to the bishop, in which she requests the bishop's conversion regarding her apparitions, otherwise, he would be "judged by me [the Madonna] and my son Jesus".[2][5] On 6 February 1985, Ivan Dragičević sent somewhat more tolerant message from the Madonna, with her stating that if he doesn't believe in her apparitions, at least he shouldn't persecute her priests who believe in her messages and promote them".[2][6]

Fr. Ivan Prusina and Fr. Ivica Vego appealed to the Franciscan Order and the Congregation for Clergy, who ignored their appeal considering their decisions to be final. However, the Apostolic Signatura, the highest judicial court of the Holy See, on 27 March 1993 concluded that they had a right on appeal and saw this as a violation of the procedure and declared the dismissal to be null and void;[7] the same followed for Fr. Ivica Vego as well.[8] The Franciscan Province of Herzegovina tried to present this as a sign of victory against the bishop, however, the bishop's revocation of Fr. Ivan Prusina's priestly jurisdiction remained in force,[7] and the Apostolic Signature never reviewed the matter itself, only the procedural defects.[8] However, only later it became known that Fr. Ivica Vego had made a nun Leopolda pregnant, whom he eventually married and lives with her near Medjugorje.[9]

Archbishop of Split-Makarska Frane Franić, who supported the alleged apparitions from the beginning, tried to persuade Vicka to retract the messages about the two friars, so the authenticity of the apparitions could be defended more easily.[2] However, both Vicka and Ivan continued to claim that the messages regarding the two friars are from the Maddona, like any other.[4]

The messages included the accusations against Bishop Pavao Žanić and encouragement for the two friars not to leave the parish.[10] It was then when Bishop Pavao took his final negative stance on the alleged apparitions.[11]

Busniess disputes

[edit]

Vicka Ivanković used her apparitions two mediate in business disputes. The two shareholders of a hotel, whom Kutleša names as A.A. and B.B., on one side, had certain issues with the third shareholder, referred to as C.C., so they asked Vicka for help. Vicka allegedly consulted the Maddona.[12]

I asked about you and heard what was going on with C.C. and she understood everything he wanted. I asked Our Lady about you. It's like this. Regarding C.C., he should be warned not to do so because he is not aware of what he is doing. She said that he would not last long and that he too would be put to an end because he does not believe in anything and does not follow God's order and that is why nothing can happen to him with a blessing. And let me tell you, don't talk about anything because he won't accept God's words. You don’t have to talk to him because it’s a big blow to him, only he won't admit it. And give up his wife because she wants to drive you to great evil and she wants to persuade him (ie her husband) to drive you out of there more easily. You stick to yours and don't give in and he will be finished.[13]

Yet, in another dispute, at the beginning of 1995, problems arose over construction of hotel in Medjugorje, called "Pastoralni centar Međugorje".[14] A family from Netherlads recieved a call for financial aid from a local family to build the hotel, whom Kutleša reffers to as N.N.[15] Prior to that, the N.N. family asked Vicka to consult the Maddona for advice on when to start the construction several times. In April 1995, the Maddona told them: "It's not the right time yet, when the times comes, I'll let you know."[16] When they requested the advice the second time, the Madonna allegedly responded the same. The third time Vicka told them that the Madonna approved the start of the construction.[17]

The Dutch family sought a confrimation from Vicka's spiritual director Friar Slavko Barbarić, whether Vicka told the N.N. family to start the construction. However, before he was able to respond, Vicka, noticing the stall in money landing replied to them.[18]

"I have already written to you once via my friends N. N. and his family, so I am contacting you again because you may not have understood me well, and at the same time I am a little surprised that you are looking for someone else's messages through Our Lady.

When Our Lady approves and emphasises the beginning of work on the construction of the facility, then I do not know why you suspect and ask for some subsequent message and approval from ordinary people.

Our Lady - Mother of God's permission was given through me for the construction of the building, so if you believe in Medjugorje and the apparition of Our Lady, I do not know why all the doubts. I sincerely wish you a happy start to construction and joint cooperation.[19]

Friar Slavko, unaware of Vicka's response, replied to the letter he received on 28 March 1995, and informed the Dutch family that Vcika "did not consult the Mother of God on the issue". The next day, the Dutch family asked him how is possible that Vicka is saying them one thing, and to him the other. Fr. Slavko finnaly tried to sort the issue by sending them another letter on 3 April 1995.

My question was: Why did she then tell me that she did not ask her (Our Lady), why did she lie to me? I spoke to Vic in front of her parents and she had little fear of her father to confirm the answer because her father was already angry at the insistence of the N.N. family. She has now also apologized in writing to me and says she never thought it was that important. She writes: It has happened now, and it will never happen again! ... To understand Vicka's situation, I will say something else in relation to the letter you received from Vicka and faxed it to me. When I read the letter, I was sure the text did not belong to Vicki. Then I asked her. And it was like this: She was getting ready for a trip to Rome and she had little time. Mr. N. N. and his son wrote the text and asked Vicka to sign the text with her own hand. In a hurry she signed the text with her own hand. Vicki has only the last sentence. Vicka therefore almost cried and apologized several times, because she knows what consequences this case of 'lies' can have, because you also wondered how ‘credible’ Medjugorje is.[20]

  1. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 75.
  2. ^ a b c d e Zovkić 1993, p. 83.
  3. ^ Kutleša 2001, pp. 77.
  4. ^ a b Zovkić 1993, p. 84.
  5. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 89: "I'm sending him a penultimate warning. If he is not converted or corrected, he will be judged by me and my son Jesus. If he does not accomplish what I am telling him it means he has not found the path of my son Jesus.
  6. ^ Kutleša 2001, pp. 91–92: "Father, do not persecute my priests, messengers of God's word if you do not already believe in my coming and my messengers through whom I give messages and lead them to life. Dear Father, listen to my words and take a stand. Start working!"
  7. ^ a b Kutleša 2001, p. 81.
  8. ^ a b Kutleša 2001, p. 64.
  9. ^ Žanić.
  10. ^ Kutleša 2001, pp. 75–78.
  11. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 80.
  12. ^ Kutleša 2001, pp. 94–95.
  13. ^ Kutleša 2001, pp. 94–95: "Ja sam pitala zavas i čula sam šta se dešava sa C.C. i sve razumila šta on hoće. Ja sam pitala dragu Gospu za vas. ’Ovako’. Za C.C. treba ga opomeniti da to nečini jer on nije svjestan šta radi. Rekla je da on neće dugo i da će se injemu stati ukraj, jer on niušto nevjeruje i neiđe Božjim redom i zato mu ništa nemože biti sa blagosovom. I još da kažem nemojte vi ništa govoriti niočeme jer on neće da prihvaća Božje rječi. Vi nemorate sanjim pričati jer to je za njega veliki udarac samo on to neće da prizna. A njegove se žene okanite jer hoće da vas dotjera do velikog zla i ona ga (tj. muža) počinje podgovarati tako da vas lakše istra odatle. Vi se držite svoga i nemojte popuštati a sta će se injemu ukraj."
  14. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 96.
  15. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 97.
  16. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 97: "Kći te obitelji opisala je 16. ožujka 1995. na tri stranice taj Pastoralni centar Međugorje. Tu spominje kako su prvi put pitali Gospu 'prošle godine u aprilu, ja mislim da je to bio kraj aprila i odgovor je glasio: 'Još nije pravo vrijeme kada bude pravi trenutak ja ću vam kazati.'"
  17. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 97: "Zatim kći nastavlja: 'Moj otac kaže da je pitao još jednom i odgovor je bio otprilike isti. I treći put 2. decembra 1994. dođe Vicka mom ocu i kaže ja sam sinoć 1. dec. pitala Gospu za vas, to stoji na jednom papiru. Točno 'Ja sam sinoć pitala Gospu za vas i ona kaže da možete polako početi sa gradnjom. Puno pozdrava i ja molim za vas Vicka'"
  18. ^ Kutleša 2001, pp. 97–98.
  19. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 98: "Već jednom sam vam pisala preko mojih prijatelja N. N. i njegove obitelji pa vam se ponovno javljam jer me možda niste dobro razumjeli, a ujedno sam na neki način i malo začuđena da preko Gospinih Majke Božje poruka tražite i nečije druge.
    Kada Gospa Majka Božja odobrava i naglašava početak radova na izgradnji objekta onda neznam čemu vaša sumlja i traženje nekakvi naknadni poruka i odobrenje od obični ljudi.
    Gospa Majka - Božja je preko mene dala odobrenje za izgradnju objekta pa ako vjerujete u Međugorje i ukaznja Gospe Majke Božje neznam čemu sumlja. Ja vam od srca želim sretan početak gradnje i zajedničke suradnje.
  20. ^ Kutleša 2001, p. 99: "Moje je pitanje bilo: Zašto mi je ona onda rekla da nju (Gospu) nije pitala, zašto mi je lagala? Ja sam s Vickom pred njezinim roditeljima govorio i ona je imala malo straha pred ocem da potvrdi odgovor, jer se otac već bio razljutio zbog insistiranja obitelji N.N. Ona se sada također pismeno kod mene ispričala i kaže da ona nije nikada mislila da je to tako važno. Ona piše: Sada se dogodilo, i neće se više nikada dogoditi!... Da biste razumjeli Vickinu situaciju, još ću nešto reći u odnosu na pismo koje ste primili od Vicke i meni faksirali. Kad sam ja pismo pročitao, bio sam siguran da tekst ne pripada Vicki. Potom sam je pitao. I to je bilo ovako: Ona se spremala na put u Rim i imala je malo vremena. Gospodin N. N. i njegov sin napisali su tekst i zamolili Vicku da ona tekst svojom rukom potpiše. U brzini ona je tekst svojom rukom potpisala. Vicki pripada samo posljednja rečenica. Vicka je stoga gotovo zaplakala i više se puta ispričala, jer ona zna koje posljedice ovaj slučaj 'laži' može imati, jer Vi ste se također zapitali kako je Međugorje 'vjerodostojno'"
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Governor_Sheng/sandbox/Our_Lady_of_Medjugorje/Controversial_apparitions_and_messages&oldid=985278726"