User:FkpCascais/Sandbox48

Outside the region, only few know when, how and why Yugoslavia was formed. South Slavs had its kingdoms in Middle Ages. First were Slovenians having an extensive kingdom of Carantania over the Alps between 650 till more-less 900s, then it was Croats that had a kingdom from 900 till 1100. Then it was Serbs which had several kingdoms, most powerfull being the one of the Nemanjic dinasty whiich lasted from 1100 to 1450 which even became an empire, Bosnia existed as christian kingdom reaching its peak in the short period between the fall of Serbian empire and Ottoman invasion, Montenegrins which are only considered separate nationality in last decades, during Middle Ages had several states, most notorious were Duklja and Zeta, and Macedonians, which are the southernmost Slavs, and which were ruled either by Byzantines, Bulgarians or Serbs, and each one would consider them as their own till the fall of Serbian empire which after Czar Dushan death desintegrated into numerous short-lived Slavic principalities, few of them becoming the first indepedent Slavic-Macedonian entities such as the Kingdom of Marko. I said short-lived, because in the next decades of 14c after Serbian empire fall, Ottomans started conquering one by one all this states. Notece that Serbian Empire was perhaps the first sort of some Yugoslavia not only because it included a vast territory and had neighbouring states as vassals such were Bulgaria, Bosnia or Albania (which existed at that time only periodically having control over small straches of montanous inaccessible land) but also because for instance Czar Dushan took the title of "ruler of Serbs, Greeks and Romans" (Romans meaning Byzantine, Vlach, Albanian and coastal Catholic people). It became a vast empire in which Serbs were the nobility but included many nationalities and aware of that the title was created reflecting it. For a period in the 13th and 14th centuries Serbs took advantage of the decline of Byzantines and Bulgarians and became the regional power and first line of defense of christian Europe against the growing danger of Turkish expansion. However, because of Byzantine cultural heritage, Serbs (as Greeks) opted for Orthodox cristianity, ad lacked Vatican support as Venetians and later Hungarians had. A thing to point out is that Serbs, despite its strong military, expanded without wars, mostly by alliances and inclusion of local lords in Serbian aristocracy. Exeption were Bulgarians, which after defeated became vassals, while Byzantine empire was loosing its territory to Serbia in a mix of wars and Serbian interference in Byzantine politics, supporting ones or anothers in Byzantine constant civil war between dinasties. By 1355 when Serbs held almost entire Balkans and Bizantines were left practically with just Constantinople, squeezed by Serbs from Europe and Ottomans from Asia Minor, became clear Serbs would take Constantinople and become the successors of the Roman Eastern Empire. That would have put Serbia in a hole new higher level and would have changed entire history. Serbian rise to this level was archived mostly by the enormous ruling, diplomatic and persuading capacity of Czar Dushan who was at time in its best age, 47, however in this crucial moment, in a total turn of luck and in misterious circunstances, Dushan unexpectedly dies. Its successor was unprepared and lacked the skills of his father, and soon looses the authority over the aristocracy formed of local lords, and the huge empire desintegrates. All aspirations are dropped, and Ottomans clearly see this as an historical chance to expand into Europe, which is what they do. Tecnically the empire stills exists but lacks cohesion and provinces rapidely one by one fall in Turks hands. In 1389, with about half lost, the ruler of the major province, the Moravian Serbia, Czar Lazar, makes an effort to invert things, and calls all others to unite all forces with him and confront the Turks. So the famous Battle of Kosovo happens. The battle itself is inconclusive, but the bloodshed is enormous. Both leaders, Czar Lazar and Ottoman Murad I are killed. Its devastating for both sides, however, Serbian side suffers more cause Ottomans are more capable to recover. The battle marks the beggning of a 300 years period in which Serbs are hardly capable of recouvering and Turks will steadilly subjugate the entire peninsula and march all the way to the doors of Vienna. Its absolut dark period for Serbs and South Slavs in general, which besides Montenegro which was capable of mantaining resistance in a small montanous area, the rest have no independence. Serbs, which during the Nemanjic dinasty lived mostly down of Danube, were forced to emigrate north to the Pannonian basin and join Austrians and Hungarians in their fighting vs Turks. The ones that stayed lived as, dare to say "fifth-class" citizens. This lasted so long that some, mostly in Bosnia, Sandzak, and most Albanians, in order to avoid such tratment and gain some privilegies, accepted converting to Islam (that is why there are clearly blond Slavic Europeans being Muslims, the nowadays called Bosniaks). Meantime, Slovenes and Croats lived all-time under Austrian rule (Croatia as part of Hungary). Dalmatia and most of the coast was part of the Venetian Republic, while on the coast northern of Montenegro, ever since Middle Ages existed a small but commercially powerfull independent Ragusa, or Republic of Dubrovnik. During Serbian empire it was sort of Dushans offshore for trade, and ever since mantained its peculiar sovereignity with population mixed of Italians, Croats and Serbs. At time of French Revolution Serbs live divided between the Austrian and Ottoman empires. The revolutionary ideals have echo in the region and Serbs intensify their revolts against Turks which were constant troughout time. By early 1800s Serbs have two major revolts, the second one resulting in a de facto independence. Greeks, which were also within the Ottoman empire, followed suit. In 1870 Serbia and Montenegro are recognised as independent, although still ruling over just small areas, Serbia for instance still having over half of population living out of its borders. During next decades Serbian major goal was to expand and "liberate" the other areas. In 1912 First Balkan War happends where Serbia, Greece, Bulgaria and Montenegro defeat Ottomans and practically drive them out of Europe. World powers intervene and prevent Turkey to loose Constantinople (now renamed Istambul) and return to Orthodox hands (strange hah?). They also make further two strange decitions, one was to order Serbia to remove from Albania which had taken, important to say, without local resistance. Albanians at time were just a few hundred thousand people, without statehood tradition, and devided between Muslim and Christian. While muslims fought along Turks, they saw their destiny linked to theirs, as repatriation to Turkey, while Christian Albanians welcomed Serbian and Monteegrin forces and were able to be assimilated just as in middle ages they mostly were). The then totally absurd creation of Albania was supported by Vatican and Austria and done in order to prevent an Slavic-Orthodox by then pro-Russian country as Serbia to access sea right in Italy back (Russia assisted Serbs agaist Ottomans and by the both Slavic/Orthodox line a brotherhood and potential political and military allience was created). Western world seing the danger of Russian naval bases in the Adriatic is their nighmare. This is important fact in Serbian history. Since the creation of Albania made Serbia to have to ceade territory and leave the coast, it ended up compensated inlands, in nowadays Macedonia which was initially intended to be divided by ethnic lines roughly at half with North-Western part populated with South-Slavs more identified with Serbia to Serbia, and South-Eastern half with Bulgarian-identifiying Macedonians going to Bulgaria. In fact, prior this, Macedonians had hardly had a separate national identity buth rather a perception of belonging to one or another. This move not only prevented Serbia from accessing the sea and clearing the area of Muslims, but created a Muslim country Albania, and created dispute and animosity between two Slavic-Orthodox brother countries mutually allied against Turks, Serbia and Bulgaria. Compensating Serbia by giving them bigger part of Macedonia that it was supposed left Bulgaria unhappy, and the Second Balkan War started with Bulgaria fighting and loosing to Serbia, Romania and Greece. A third strange Western Powers decition was to allow Austro-Hungary to occupy Bosnia. This was extremelly polemical because Serbs, in their liberation of Serb-habited teritories still under Ottoman rule, were seing their natural space totally being manipulated. In Bosnia the vast majority of population were seing their future uniting with Serbia. With a religiously mixed population, both Orthodox and Muslims, forming 80% of country, identified as Serbian, while there was besides a less then 20% Croat Catholics. Vatican lobbied all around in order to prevent Serbia to expand naturally to West and absorve Bosia but rather giving it to Catholic Austria. There was naturally major discontent against Austrian occupation, and, in what was a clear provocation on behalve of Austrians by sending their archiduke to a visit to capital Sarajevo preciselly on the Serbian Hollyday Vidovdan, a Serb shot the prince and it was the pertext Austria wanted to declare war and invade Serbia. Serbia, which had just been trough years of deadly wars indeed theoretically seemed as an easy bite to a comparativelly huge Austro-Hungarian empire plus backed by Germany, so First World War started. Surprisingly, Serbs stood strong for long, pevious Balkan wars gave them precious experience, however the death tool was huge (a 1/3 of entire population). Attacked by three sides because Bulgaria joined Austria and attacked from the back, Serbian and Montenegrin armies reagruped in Greece and with Allied assistance from France and Britain stated a heroic campaign driving Austrians, Germans and Bulgarians out. By time Serbian forces liberated entire Serbia, it became clear Allies will win the war, powerfull Austro-Hungarian empire was humiliated, and Serbian but also other South-Slav populated areas under Austrians started desiring liberation and saw in Serbian advance a chance for it. It is 1918 and Serbian army marches all the way till the Alps. Different regions of Austro-Hungary begin declaring unification with Serbia. Previously already the king of Montenegro renounced its independence and proclaimed union with Serbia, and so did a combined united teritory of Srem, Banat, Baranja and Backa. Bosnia and Herzegovina did as well, while a crucial moment was when the leadership of Dalmatia sent an ultimatum to Zagreb, capital of what was the Croatia-Slavonia, saying that if they didnt declared a general declaration, that they would unite with Serbia on their own. Why is this moment crucial? Because at that moment Dalmatia had been a separate province from Croatia for long and Austrians and Hungarians were preventing Croatian aspiration to rule Dalmatia within internal divisions of Austro-Hungary by giving Croatia-Slavonia kingdom to Hungary (nominally "kingdom" but allways province of Hungary since 1100) and Dalmatia to Croatia. Croatia ruled over Dalmatia for a period in Middle Ages, but so did Serbia, and who ruled Dalmatia most was Venice. Historically Dalmatia was ruled by Italians while the population was Slavic. Although there were Orthodox Slavic population, in Dalmatia the Catholic, due to its Roman influence, was more numerous. A multiethnic and multireligious society, Dalmatia in 1918 had more of a regionalistic aspiration then national. Croatia claimed it on basis of periods of rule of some regions in the past, but specially on the religious card, claiming the Catholic Slavs as Croats in opposition to Orthodox Serbs. Croats are vastly Catholic, however Serbs did receved Catholic faith in the Littoral principalities they formed such were Travunija, Paganija, etc. Dubrovnik for instance was known for having large communities of Catholic Serbs. In 1918 it became clear Dalmatia will be freed from its Austrian rule, and the only local community with significant presence was the Italian. However, they formed majority only in a handfull of town, while most of the territory was Dalmatian-Slavic majority. By then the Dalmatians lacked clear national identification, and were viewing the idea of becoming part of a Slavic country after centuries of non-Slavic rule, very positively. So here we come again to that crucial problem of the control of the access to the sea. Vatican was seing the situation dramatical with the possibility of Dalmatia becoming part of an Orthodox Serbia. Since Serbian advance was unstopable, there was a urgency of lobbiying for some alternative plan. It was clear Serbia was, in their view, righfully and with so much sacrifice, archiving its ultimate goal of finally liberating and uniting all its lands which were for centuries occupied by non-Serbian and non even Slavic rulers (Austrians, Hungarians, Ottomans and Venetians). People were happy, there was cheer and euphoria, after centuries this geographical space was able to unite all similar people into a one country. Germany and Italy did it, even neighbours such as Bulgaria (uniting with Trakia) and Romania (union of Wallachia and Moldavia) had done it. Serbia, with an important mention of Montenegro as well, with enormous sacrifice has done it. Serbs centuries long strugle for freedom and restauration of its medieval glory was now righfully a winning Allied. One by one regions were recognising its union with Serbia and recognition of Serbian king as the supreme monarch. Even the most distant, Catholic Slovenia, was welcoming Serbian troops. The only exeption was by then a small Zagreb-centered Croatia. Although Croats never forgot their medieval independent kingdom, they were always unable of fighting for more then large authoomy within Hungary. Hungarians allowed them to keep a nominal name of "Kingdom" however they lacked a real king or any sovereignity. When Ottomans started invading Hungary, Hungarian subjugation to Austrian crown even further distances Croatian aspirations of independence by making them a province of Hungary with Hungary part of Austrian empire. Duing Austro-Turkish wars Austrians even furher shrinked Croatian territory by colonising large parts with Serbian colonists to fortify the border area this creating the directly Austrian-rules Military Frontier, Krajina. In the Krajina, the some local control and authority Zagreb exercied was removed. The main language became German while Croatian was used along Serbian. A common missconception in modern Croatia is to think that since the Military Border was divided into 4 sections and one was called "Croatian Military Frontier" that it meant Croatia had control over it, however the name Croatian was just geographical. Documented discussions from the Hungarian parliament where Croatian representatives had a seat show that Croats continuously demanded the return of Krajina to their control, with only some powers being given by late 1870s. Another continuos issue for Croats was their strugle for the province of Dalmatia to be united with Croatia-Slavonia, forming a single one, however that goal was never archived. Clearly rebel within A-H internal politics, Croatian strugle can be carachterised mostly as descentralizing, rather then seccessionist. By seing Serbs populating many areas they aspired and Serbia an independent small but expansionistic kingdom, many Croats conscripted in Austro-Hungarian army activelly fought against Serbia. With all this, their situation in 1918 after the war is maximally infavourable. On the losing side, limited by control over a small area around capital Zagreb, and with their former expansionistic aspiration Dalmatia uniting with Serbia, Zagreb sees Serbian troops parading in its main square in fear. From fighting to become recognised as a third partner in the now destryed Austro-Hungarian empire, they see their faith being debated with the humiliating option of Zagreb region (Zagorje) being left in Hungary, or being added to Slovenia or even what was then quite larger Bosnia. Their only hope lies in some sort of unified South-Slav entity. They rush to form the so called "State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs" however it lacks any recognition or control.At this point their fears match the Vatican ones, and with such a powerfull ally they menage to convince the main powers that the best option is to create a Yugoslavia instead of Great Serbia. Although unable to confront the Serbian militatry rule which was even parading in its capital and being cheerfully receved in many areas they aspired, and unabled to challenge the Serbian supreeme power in the figure of Serbian king being the monarch of the new state, they menage along Vatican to convince the world Yugoslav option is the best. The "Yugoslav comeettee" had already been formed in exile in Greece during the war with delegates of Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia, so the idea wasnt new. Vatican clearly sees Zagreb role as a sabotaging power to clearly centralization ideas Belgrade was pretending. So Western Powers agree on creating Yugoslavia as the opion and this way preventing a strong Serbia with now what would have been a big access to sea right there next to Italy. Croatian faith was saved, the Serbianization of vast areas prevented, and despite being unhappy because at first glance Croats archived nothing then swearing out to a different foreign king and becoming province of a different kingdom, they archived having united all their irredentist territories in one state, now it was up to them. Serbian political elite although having a kingdom for a while, was still unexperienced, and in comparison, Croats from their gained experience within Austro-Hungarian politics undoubably had much more skills. Unaware of the stakes here, Serbs believe was that a kingdom including Slavic brothers Croats and Slovenes was a major gain, unaware that what would have been just a slightly smaller state but Serbian would had been so much easier to run. Vatican plan was just perfect because the Serbian territorial expansions despite the enthusiasm of most local populations, still had to go trought a test of process of assimilation in quite few places. The inclusion of a clearly "foreign" to Serbs agent such as Croatia gave to the new state a totally different reality, with now two forces not just equal, but rather desfavourable for Serbs, strenght of forces between centralization and assimilation to Serbia s descentralization, authonomism and ethnic and cultural plurality. If in 1918 Croats were specilized in anything, it was in their centuries long fight for descentralization and sabotaging of central power. Serbs in total euphoria joyfull of their huge liberated country were totally unaware of any of this and reacted unprepared with total surprise when saw first instances of it, while Croats begin since day 1, hour 1, minute 1, second 1, the destruction of this Serbian-Belgrade dominated... Yugoslavia

Are Romanians Roman descendants in the Balkans?

When analising such geopolitical historical events, one must have allways in mind the interess and manipulations great powers had in the area. Balkans were very different before Middle Ages and included quite powerfull nations in that time. Greece, Alexanders Macedonia, Dacia, Huns, Bizantine empire, Bulgaria, Serbia and even Venice was much oriented into holding ports in Balkans thus making it partially Balkanic country, so all these were in certain periods European powers. However, Ottomans took it all destroying them and replacing them as South-Eastern European power. When Ottomans were driven out, local nations intended to restore their power and geopolitical place, however, established European powers, namelly Russia, Germany, Austro-Hungary, France, British empire and Italy/Vatican saw more benefit in preventing it, and instead make Balkans their chessboard in a game of influences while guaranteeing none of Balkan nations would rise to an extend of putting in danger the established new world order. A proof of that is that Balkan nations were denied recovering Constantinople from Turks and restoring a Christian empire (yes, Christian Europe prefered an Islamic Turkish Istambul centered in Anatolia than a Christian Constantinople perhaps within a new Bizantine empire centered in Balkans, Europe). Also, a great deal was that all this potential Balkanic new powers were all Christian Orthodox, thus having the simpathy only from Russia, and actual animosity specially from Vatican and Germans. Great powers manipulated it all to prevent the rise of any Balkan nation, and even planned invasion of Balkans by provoking WWI however that unexpectingly gone wrong and Serbs won with a humilliating consequence for Germans of the destruction of their major ally, Austro-Hungary. Afterwords, Serbia gave place to Yugoslavia which even reached to became an important world player as the head of Non-Alligned movement during Cold War; Greece stabilised; however, the momentum was lost and any of Balkan nations was able to recover its medieval glory and become prosperous side-by-side with great powers.

Now, knowing this, how great powes manipulation in Balkans internal affairs relates with Dacia and Romania? Well, in a similar way as Albania was created to prevent Serbia having access to sea, similarly Romania was Latinised in order to prevent Russia and Eastern Slavs in having continuum space uniting them with South Slavs. Genetics show that Romanians are just same people as Serbs, Bulgarians and other South Slavs. Even language despite all the effort to make it as much Latin as possible, still have quite a lot of Slavic words and influence which was simply iinevitable to erase. So today Romanians have hardly nothing more to do with ancient Romans than any other nation in the region, where basically all are a mixture of the so many peoples that passed trough this cultural highway. Even South Slavs are far from being pure Slavs, but rather a mix of Slavs with Hunns, Bulgars, Turks, Illyrians, Saxons, etc. Romanian language is definitelly Latin, but Romanian people have nothing to do with ancient Romans. Even the language being Latin was the result more of manipulation and great power interests in breaking Slav/Orthodox continuum between Russia and South Slavs.