User:CmdrDan/Lawrence K. Grossman

Lawrence K. Grossman
Born	Lawrence Kugelmass (1931-06-21)June 21, 1931 Brooklyn, NY
Died	March 23, 2018(2018-03-23) (aged 86) Westport, CT
Alma mater	Columbia University (1952), Harvard Law School
Employer(s)	NBC, PBS,
Known for	President of NBC News,
Television	Death of a Princes, The MacNeil/Lehrer Report, Frontline, Vietnam: A Television History, Live From Lincoln Center
Spouse	Alberta "Boots" Nevler
Children	Susan Grossman of Brooklyn, Caroline Grossman of Waltham, Mass., and Jennifer Grossman Peltz of Manhattan
Parents	Nathaniel H. Kugelmass (father) Rose Goldstein (mother)

Lawrence Kugelmass Grossman (June 21, 1931 - March 23, 2018) was an American television executive, advertising executive, entrepreneur, author, educator, activist. His is well known as president of NBC News and president of PBS.

Early Life

Born to Rose Goldstein, a school administrator, and Nathaniel H. Kugelmass, a lawyer, in Brooklyn. His father died when he was three years after his birth; his mother later married Nathan Grossman who adopted him.

Midwood High School

Grossman was a member of the class of YYYY at Midwood High School where he was editor of the school's newspaper: The Argus Source: Columbia Daily Spectator, April 5, 1951, "Fourteen New Top Specmen to Begin Work Next Monday, page 2

The New York Times reported that while at Midwood "a journalism teacher opened his mind to the world of communication."

Columbia University where he majored in ??? ENglish and Political Science. In 1951, he served as the Managing Editor of the Columbia Daily Spectator under Editor in Chief Max Frankel While at Columbia he was also president of the Debate Council and was also "active on Blue Book and the Forum on Democracy.

Met his future wife, Alberta Nevler, who was attending Radcliffe, while at Harvard Law School. Went to Harvard Law School in

Grossman left Harvard Law after one year--"after deciding law school and I were not meant for each other"-- @ 2:39 in this video" https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=WuJ3hzyQWgY Conversations with History: Lawrence K. Grossman

and began working in the promotions department at Look Magazine. But he left Harvard after a year and joined Look magazine in the promotions department. Hoping to be a journalist, he sent story ideas to editors there but found no takers.

NYTImes Sourced:

Hired in the mid-1950s by CBS to do advertising and promotion for the news division during the era of Edward R. Murrow, he continued to hope for a journalism job but did not succeed.

Then, at NBC, where he was a vice president of advertising from 1962 to 1966, he met Mr. Tinker, who was then in programming; their friendship would lead Mr. Tinker to consider only Mr. Grossman for the presidency of NBC News.

But that was still nearly two decades away. After leaving NBC for the first time, he opened an advertising, marketing and communications firm. PBS, one of his clients, hired him as its president in 1976.

In 1980, he refused to bow to pressure that PBS not show “Death of a Princess,” a film based on a true story about a Saudi princess who had been publicly beheaded for adultery a few years earlier. Mobil Oil, a major PBS underwriter, protested. Some members of Congress spoke out. And Warren M. Christopher, the secretary of state, relayed a letter of concern from the Saudi Ambassador to the United States.

Mr. Grossman’s stance “was the single most important thing he did at PBS,” Richard Wald, a professor emeritus at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism and a former NBC News president, said in a telephone interview. “He created a sense in PBS that they were doing important work, and it caused PBS to stand up straighter. It was enormously important to how PBS conducted itself thereafter.”

PBS

Initiated satellite distribution--becoming first broadcaster to distribute programming via satellite. Launched McNeil/Lehrer report at 30 minutes and then entended to 60 minutes--becoming first broadcaster to have 30 minute national news programming. Launched Frontline documentary at time when commercial networks were concentrating more on revenue maximization via re-runs.

NBC News

Recruited and hired, as a vice president of NBC News, Tim Russert at the time a political aide to Gov. Mario M. Cuomo of New York. Russert would go on the air NBC News’s top on-air personalities as the moderator of “Meet the Press”). And he had some successes, including “Today’s” return as ratings leader among morning news programs and an increased regard for “NBC Nightly News,” which had risen briefly to No. 1 in the ratings in 1987 before falling to third place.

Hired Tim Russert: http://www.westportnow.com/index.php?/v3/comments/westporter_who_hired_nbcs_tim_russert_shocked_by_his_death/

introduced to Russert via: Leonard Garment

Personal life Death Awards and honors Further reading

Books

https://lccn.loc.gov/65016637 Somehow it works; a candid portrait of the 1964 Presidential election, by NBC News. Edited by Gene Shalit and Lawrence K. Grossman. Photos. by David Hollander and Paul Seligman. Designed by John Graham. Garden City, N.Y., Doubleday [1965]

https://lccn.loc.gov/95001449 The electronic republic : reshaping democracy in the information age / Lawrence K. Grossman. New York, N.Y. : Viking, 1995.

https://lccn.loc.gov/98033344 Life in an older America / Robert N. Butler, Lawrence K. Grossman, and Mia R. Oberlink, editors. New York : Century Foundation, 1999.

https://lccn.loc.gov/2001000628 A digital gift to the nation : fulfilling the promise of the digital and Internet age / Lawrence K. Grossman and Newton N. Minow, with background papers on digital perspectives. New York : Century Foundation Press, c2001.

https://lccn.loc.gov/65016637 NBC News. Somehow it works; a candid portrait of the 1964 Presidential election, by NBC News. Edited by Gene Shalit and Lawrence K. Grossman. Photos. by David Hollander and Paul Seligman. Designed by John Graham. [1st ed.] Garden City, N.Y., Doubleday [1965]

    223 p. illus., map, ports. 31 cm.
    E850 .N3

https://lccn.loc.gov/95001449 Grossman, Lawrence K. The electronic republic : reshaping democracy in the information age / Lawrence K. Grossman. New York, N.Y. : Viking, 1995.

    xiv, 290 p. ; 24 cm.
    JK1764 .G76 1995
    ISBN: 0670861294

https://lccn.loc.gov/98033344 Life in an older America / Robert N. Butler, Lawrence K. Grossman, and Mia R. Oberlink, editors. New York : Century Foundation, 1999.

    vi, 287 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
    HQ1064.U5 O4186 1999
    ISBN: 0870784242 (alk. paper)

https://lccn.loc.gov/2001000628 Grossman, Lawrence K. A digital gift to the nation : fulfilling the promise of the digital and Internet age / Lawrence K. Grossman and Newton N. Minow, with background papers on digital perspectives. New York : Century Foundation Press, c2001.

    xiii, 280 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.
    T58.5 .G78 2001
    ISBN: 0870784668 (pamphlet : alk. paper)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/obituaries/lawrence-k-grossman-head-of-pbs-and-then-nbc-news-dies-at-86.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/lawrence-k-grossman-top-executive-at-pbs-and-nbc-news-dies-at-86/2018/03/24/040dd102-2f75-11e8-b0b0-f706877db618_story.html

https://www.amazon.com/Lawrence-K.-Grossman/e/B000APT7WC/

Conversations with History: Lawrence K. Grossman https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=WuJ3hzyQWgY

In Memoriam: Lawrence K. Grossman (1931-2018) It is with a heavy heart that I share that Larry Grossman, one of Digital Promise’s founders and Board members, has passed. We owe much of our existence to Mr. Grossman. He was a true visionary and embodied our mission to spur innovation in education and improve the opportunity to learn for ALL through technology and research. https://digitalpromise.org/memoriam-lawrence-k-grossman-1931-2018/ https://digitalpromise.org/memoriam-lawrence-k-grossman-1931-2018/

A Personal Journey Through the New Digital Media Landscape http://digitalpromise.org/personal-journey-new-digital-media-landscape/

Our History http://digitalpromise.org/about/our-history/

What the hell??? GROSSMAN, WHO AS PRESIDENT OF PBS DOUBLED THE LENGTH OF “THE canada goose coats Head of PBS and Then NBC News http://www.bobdavids.com/2014/grossman-who-as-president-of-pbs-doubled-the-length-of-the/

Honoring Midwood alum, Lawrence Grossman and his impact on news media April 13, 2018 http://www.midwoodalumni.org/posts/honoring-midwood-alum-lawrence-grossman-and-his-impact-on-news-media

Some Notes: Look Magazine in Promotion Dept. Story ideas to editorial dept.

CBS TV Adv and Promotion Dept concetrating @ CBS News Advertising and Promotion Ed Murrow Fred Friendly and Howard K Smith ask for a job in

NBC to Head Advertising in 1962 Bob Kitner fmr Newspaprer Columnist tiger about News "hung around News Dept a lot"

Interview with Kreisler, Harry @ UCB

not traditional journalists...in charge of Edu Speeches @ CBS. Great Broadcasters "fell into" journalism

chief diff: on 3, no 2, networks

Golden Age: Public Service: fear of losing license

Early Days of media: more opp for creativity...paradoxal:

Later Career Pres @ NBC News: pecuiler turn... post PBS

PBS: 1976-1984 installed Satellite Distribution Sounds silly... $40 million Ford Administration open Senate Hearings to Televise Senate Confirmation Hearings preempted contractual programming began first entity to save job 1st to use Sat distribution in Broadcasting

Curses to this day: Secret to success of leadership Set Goal Have a goal articulate goal persuade others...

Created 1/2 nightly news Mac Lehrer then 1 hour Documentaries: Frontline

Source of vision: From Commercial Experience---to proviode what commer is not providing too much repeat programming

alt quality broadcast service

NBC News 1983 called: started in 1984 to run NBC News--always his fantasy and Dream

advatage: cultivate stations Selling Job Satellite experience Closed Captioning

interconnect worldwide NBC News. break out of studio

sent Today show on the road: Moscow Peking Vatacian travel Miss Valley exciting and dramatic...out of studio

01:49 I was a very bad student for a very long 01:51 time but in the last couple of years in 01:53 high school there was a journalism 01:54 teacher named dr. Fuchs who really 01:58 turned me on to the whole notion of 02:00 communications and journalism and then 02:02 there are a couple of wonderful teachers 02:03 and social studies at Columbia no this 02:06 was at in high school really what was 02:09 the high school ready at high school in 02:10 Brooklyn mm-hmm and then at Columbia 02:12 that was a golden age in many ways of

COmplete Transcript

00:30 welcome to a conversation with history 00:32 I'm Harry Kreisler of the Institute of 00:34 International Studies guest today is 00:36 Lawrence Kay Grossman who is a former 00:39 president of NBC News and former 00:42 president of the Public Broadcasting 00:44 System he's the author of the electronic 00:48 Republic and with Newton and minnow he 00:51 is the co-author of a report called AB 00:54 digital gift to the nation mr. Grossman 00:57 welcome to Berkeley thank you glad to be 01:00 here where are we born and raised 01:01 Brooklyn New York and where were you 01:05 educated and the public schools of 01:07 Brooklyn and then Columbia University 01:10 and looking back how do you think your 01:12 parents shaped your character well 01:15 there's a very strong sense not only by 01:17 my parents but in the neighborhood of 01:19 gratitude for the opportunities in this 01:22 country a passionate belief in democracy 01:23 there grandpa 01:25 their parents were immigrants and 01:26 there's a sense of around their dinner 01:29 table all the time of discussion of 01:31 public issues and sense of real public 01:34 responsibility and public spirited focus 01:36 so I suppose that's where it caught me 01:39 and did you have any teachers or mentors 01:43 when you were wrong who really 01:45 influenced you in the direction that you 01:47 took beyond what you just described well 01:49 I was a very bad student for a very long 01:51 time but in the last couple of years in 01:53 high school there was a journalism 01:54 teacher named dr. Fuchs who really 01:58 turned me on to the whole notion of 02:00 communications and journalism and then 02:02 there are a couple of wonderful teachers 02:03 and social studies at Columbia no this 02:06 was at in high school really what was 02:09 the high school ready at high school in 02:10 Brooklyn mm-hmm and then at Columbia 02:12 that was a golden age in many ways of 02:15 Columbia there would have been years I 02:17 was there from 48 to 52 and Lionel 02:20 Trilling and shop for Andrew Chef who've 02:23 taught Shakespeare and Mark Van Doren 02:25 they were a wonderful bunch in the 02:27 English department and in political 02:29 science and you started out and 02:32 advertising is that am I correct about 02:34 that for a brief stint there wasn't a 02:36 brief stint that was most of my career 02:37 actually in terms of leg 02:39 okay I went to law school for a year and 02:42 decided that the law and I were not 02:44 meant for each other and wanted to go to 02:46 work in a magazine to be a journalist 02:48 and the only job I could get after a 02:50 long search was it look magazine and the 02:53 promotion department and every week I 02:55 would send story ideas in the hopes of 02:57 getting over to the editorial department 02:59 and had no luck and then I got a job 03:02 when I saw that television was the big 03:04 coming thing in television at CBS when 03:08 they had just started an advertising and 03:10 promotion department and I was the 03:12 copywriter and concentrated on CBS News 03:15 which in those days was headed by Ed 03:17 Morrow and Fred friendly and Howard case 03:21 Smith a very distinguished and wonderful 03:24 bunch of people and I did the 03:27 advertising and promotion for CBS News 03:29 much of it and every week I'd go up to 03:32 Fred friendly and Ed Morrow and ask for 03:34 a job and news and they and then I went 03:38 over to NBC to head advertising back in 03:41 1960 KNBC news you see to had all our 03:45 advertising but in those days NBC was 03:48 run by a tyrant who had been a newspaper 03:51 columnist thing Bob Kenda and he nearly 03:53 didn't care much about the entertainment 03:55 side but he was a tiger about news and 03:58 that was a days of Chet Huntley and 03:59 David Brinkley when NBC News became the 04:01 dominant and I did much of the 04:04 advertising and all of the promotion and 04:06 hung around the news department a lot 04:10 this I guess we think of as the golden 04:12 age of television both in culture which 04:15 is something you become interested later 04:16 but but also a news but what is 04:19 distinctive about that period in 04:23 comparison to the later phases is if 04:25 that so many of these dominant 04:28 personalities that you just met were 04:29 real journalists in a traditional sense 04:32 no ironically I don't think that was the 04:34 reason I mean that's the conventional 04:36 wisdom but ed Murrow had never been in 04:38 journalism before he was in charging for 04:40 sort of educational speeches at Columbia 04:44 broadcasting but then when world war ii 04:47 broke out he was in Europe and he 04:49 started broadcasting on radio and proved 04:52 to be one of the all-time great figures 04:55 in journalism and that was true of just 04:58 the most of the of the great 05:00 broadcasters in the sense that they just 05:02 fell into it they fell into it they had 05:05 an interest in it 05:06 and many of them of course did come like 05:07 Walter Cronkite from newspaper or wire 05:09 services but many did not and in those 05:13 days I think the chief difference were 05:15 two one was that there are only three 05:18 networks actually two networks CBS and 05:20 NBC and in the early days of television 05:23 it was and I'm not such a mass medium 05:26 and there was a sense because it was new 05:28 that it had high ideals and high 05:30 aspirations and there was also a 05:32 government policy that required a 05:34 certain amount of public service in 05:35 order to hold station licenses and that 05:38 was seriously felt perhaps not as 05:41 serious as it should have been but 05:42 nonetheless still that way and because 05:45 it was a new medium and because of the 05:47 concern about holding onto licenses 05:49 there was a very strong feeling the 05:52 public that broadcasters commercial 05:54 broadcasters with public trustees and 05:56 they had to honor the requirement to 05:57 provide News and CBS particularly had 06:00 that mission and then they also had a 06:03 certain sense because it was no runner 06:05 was live the natural thing cause it was 06:07 television was to provide drama in 06:09 addition to the quiz shows and the 06:11 sitcoms and so on here you're talking 06:13 about things like studio wants hours and 06:17 hours of live drama Playhouse 90 studio 06:20 one sous series called climax that 06:23 produced some wonderful wonderful and 06:26 very serious and quite fascinating 06:28 material and that's what gave it the 06:30 golden age that a news gave it the able 06:33 to draw on the resources of New York all 06:35 of the young acting and directorial 06:37 talent that's true in the early days all 06:40 of the programming pretty much came out 06:42 of New York Playhouse 90 was the first 06:44 major production to emerge from the West 06:46 Coast but it was a kind of New York 06:49 Broadway mentality and tradition and 06:51 that gave it a sense of the importance 06:53 of drama and of course news also 06:56 was focused totally as it still is 06:58 really originated from New York 07:01 could youcould one establish a 07:03 historical rule here that in the early 07:06 days of emedia the opportunity is for 07:10 creativity experimentation for for 07:14 culture and in serious reporting that 07:17 that because the the money men haven't 07:20 figured out where the money is to be 07:23 made yet that you get this kind of 07:25 Renaissance in a way that's partly true 07:28 its paradoxical because you also have 07:32 television after all was an inheritance 07:35 of or in her came from Radio basically 07:38 so you had radio with pictures in many 07:40 of the shows but then because it was new 07:43 and nobody had any rules you did get 07:45 some of that creativity and as you say 07:47 initial Renaissance it also was before 07:50 television penetrated through the whole 07:52 society so that you had not the need to 07:56 appeal to quite as mass and audience as 07:58 you did in the early days only the 08:01 middle class and the upper class had 08:03 television and therefore you were 08:04 programming to their sensibilities more 08:06 than now I want to talk about your 08:10 proposals for thinking about how we 08:13 enter the digital age but before I do 08:14 that I would like to touch on your later 08:18 career in television news you became 08:21 president of NBC News how did that come 08:26 about well that was also a great 08:28 peculiar turn I had been president of 08:30 PBS PBS after I left NBC in charge of 08:34 advertising I thought that network 08:36 television had crossed the frontier and 08:38 was not going to do anything terribly 08:40 exciting and had an idea to open a 08:42 company that would concentrate 08:44 doing the kinds of things that I knew 08:46 about promotion advertising commercials 08:48 productions for public affairs and for 08:52 politics and for media clients which is 08:54 very different from the packaged goods 08:55 advertising that especially agencies 08:59 specialized in and one of my clients 09:01 ended up the first person who called me 09:03 one of the first people was Fred 09:04 friendly the former president of CBS 09:06 News who used to turn me down regularly 09:08 as a kid and he had gone to the Ford 09:11 Foundation and he was pushing public a 09:14 whole new idea of public television and 09:17 asking he had left CBS because of a 09:19 conflict over televising the Vietnam 09:23 hearings right that's right he had left 09:24 CBS because there were hearings about 09:26 Vietnam and CBS chose to rerun I Love 09:30 Lucy and he thought that was a terrible 09:34 mistake and they had a big fight with 09:37 Bill Paley and ended up leaving he went 09:42 to the Ford Foundation and in those days 09:44 the public television was just starting 09:47 in the late 60s Carnegie Commission had 09:50 advocated public television which had 09:52 been educational television and Ford was 09:55 the chief backer and there was no 09:57 sources of money to support it and so I 10:00 was brought in as an advertising 10:01 promotion guy to both put public 10:04 television PBS on the map and to figure 10:07 out new ways of raising money for and as 10:10 a consultant and and work with them for 10:14 a number of years and the next thing I 10:15 knew somebody called and asked if I 10:17 would want to come and save TBS which 10:20 was in big trouble and so you were 10:25 working as a consultant that's right 10:28 right I see and it was a very peculiar 10:31 choice because I had grown up in 10:32 commercial broadcasting and network 10:34 television in New York and PBS was very 10:37 different and there was a big rebellion 10:38 inside the system but I stayed there for 10:41 eight years and then I got a call from 10:43 then and wonderful president of NBC 10:46 grant tinker went from to save NBC which 10:50 was in big trouble and we had done a lot 10:52 of public affairs programming on PBS 10:53 Frontline macneil/lehrer Newshour began 10:56 or was a half-hour and then turned to an 10:58 hour and he asked if I'd come to NBC 11:00 News to run it before we go to NBC News 11:03 let's talk about a little about this PBS 11:05 experience what were those years that 11:08 you were head was at PBS from 76 to 84 11:12 84 eight years 11:14 and and I in one of your in your book I 11:17 there was an interesting story about one 11:19 of your first decisions was about a 11:21 choice about how putting in place the 11:23 first satellite network that's right and 11:25 initially you were reluctant so here you 11:27 were in your own history having to 11:29 confront a new technology and and what 11:32 did you decide why well it was a great 11:34 lesson we soon as I came to PBS the 11:37 chief engineer said we we want to move 11:40 to satellite distribution and it's going 11:42 to cost 40 million dollars and I said 11:44 that's the dumbest thing I ever heard of 11:46 first of all the idea of sending a 11:47 picture through the air to a thing up in 11:50 the atmosphere over which you have no 11:52 control 11:52 sounds very risky to me if God meant 11:56 pictures to fly you know he organized 11:59 things differently and secondly and I 12:02 said if we have 40 million dollars we 12:04 have no programs what's the point of 12:05 having the greatest superhighway for 12:07 distribution when we have no automobiles 12:09 to put on it if we have that kind of 12:10 money let's invest it in programming 12:12 this was in the early days of public 12:13 television and what happened was that 12:16 the president I had come in during the 12:19 Florida Administrative Code and Carter 12:21 got elected I said the way to show 12:23 public television's potential is to open 12:26 up the Senate hearings on the new 12:27 cabinet ministers so that the public 12:30 could see who they know leaders would be 12:31 and we went in broke precedent and got 12:33 permission to televise the Senate 12:35 confirmation hearings and the stations 12:38 were up in arms because most of them are 12:40 licensed to school boards and 12:41 educational institutions with contracts 12:44 to carry Sesame Street and mr. Rogers 12:48 and so on and we were pre-empting that 12:50 with the public hearing and I ran back 12:53 to our chief engineer and I said didn't 12:56 you say that the satellite could feed 12:57 more than one program at a time 12:59 stations could choose and then I became 13:01 a great convert so as to save my job and 13:04 not from any great foresight and 13:07 long-term perspective that we became the 13:09 first to use satellite distribution in 13:11 broadcasting and what was the greatest 13:13 difficulty in managing 13:16 a public entity like PBS was it the lack 13:21 of resources was it the fact is it a 13:24 confederal structure that was hard to 13:26 really rule so yes it was really set up 13:29 as a counterpoint to network dominated 13:31 television so it is the stations that 13:33 the focus is on and they control PBS and 13:36 it's much like the Articles of 13:38 Confederation versus a federal 13:39 government you need consensus is very 13:42 hard to get new things going to get 13:44 untested and untried frontier stuff 13:48 going many of the stations are licensed 13:50 to school boards that are afraid of 13:52 understandably controversy so that if 13:55 there is any marginally questionable 13:57 program it creates a lot of problems 13:59 it's dealing with it the ultimate 14:01 democracy plus the lack of funding plus 14:05 a third major element which is one of 14:07 the curses to this day of Public 14:08 Television and that is that everybody 14:11 views it with a different set of 14:13 priorities to some it's an educational 14:15 medium to some it's a cultural medium to 14:17 someone should be an expression of 14:18 minority unheard interest to some it 14:21 should be a news and information medium 14:23 and obviously it can't satisfy everybody 14:26 and there's no real Union unanimity of 14:29 view as to what its major purposes 14:31 should be so what is the secret to 14:33 success of leadership in such an 14:37 enterprise 14:37 the secret to success of leadership is 14:39 is having a goal and being able to 14:43 articulate it and persuade others that 14:46 that's the way to go with it we set a 14:48 goal we had no news of public affairs 14:51 programming because under the Nixon era 14:53 he had stripped public television of 14:57 that and I said we should be the first 14:59 to have a half-hour nightly news 15:01 analysis program which was the McNeal 15:04 Laura and then we should be the first to 15:06 have go for an hour in the evening we 15:09 should also do documentaries because 15:11 although the network's were dropping 15:12 documentaries and that started 15:14 frontline and we should move into fields 15:16 that are not covered in commercial 15:18 broadcasting science and and do original 15:22 American play 15:23 unfortunately that last is no longer in 15:26 existence on public television so it's a 15:28 matter of having a sense of what the 15:30 priority should be and getting out there 15:34 and trying to sell it and what was the 15:36 source of your vision the this dissents 15:39 that all of this can and should be done 15:40 well in a funny way it probably came in 15:43 great part for my commercial experience 15:45 that said you really have to have a 15:47 focus on where you want to go the public 15:50 television had a responsibility to 15:51 provide what commercial television was 15:54 not providing and that the danger of 15:57 raising money by having too much you 16:00 know 16:00 repeat programming Florence Welch learns 16:04 well and so on which happened to raise a 16:06 lot of money for the station through 16:09 memberships there was hardly fulfilling 16:11 the mission of an alternative quality 16:14 broadcast service so then you you've 16:17 done your stint there and then grant 16:18 tinker calls you up one day and says 16:20 come over to NBC News that's right yeah 16:23 that would have been what year that was 16:24 an I came to NBC News in 1984 so it was 16:28 toward the end of 83 and he called an 16:32 NBC News had has had its problems with 16:35 ratings and with quality and he asked me 16:38 to come into New York come back to New 16:40 York and and run NBC News which had 16:44 always been my fantasy in my dream but I 16:46 never imagined that that would be the 16:47 case since I had really never been 16:49 directly responsible for news anywhere 16:51 in broadcasting and so what did you find 16:56 was it was it that was it the same kind 16:58 of shop that you described in an earlier 17:02 phase where you were just a beginner in 17:04 the business well I was that gave me 17:07 certain advantages and and and 17:09 ironically my experience with PBS gave 17:11 me certain advantages on the commercial 17:13 side one was the need to cultivate the 17:16 stations the stations do not like NBC 17:20 News because they thought it was 17:21 arrogant and removed and above kind of 17:24 trying to persuade them to carry our 17:26 specials and documentaries and primetime 17:28 offerings and so I turned out to have a 17:33 selling job there too 17:35 but the other was that my experience 17:37 with the satellite this was before any 17:39 commercial broadcasters had satellite 17:41 and I had become because we were really 17:44 very advanced than satellite with closed 17:46 captioning public television led the way 17:48 and all of that and I saw the 17:50 opportunities for computers also the 17:53 notion that we could interconnect the 17:55 worldwide NBC News and put everybody on 17:57 line in effect through computer 17:59 communication in its earliest form and 18:02 also break out of the studio 18:04 so because we could use a satellite to 18:07 transmit signals and we sent it Today 18:10 Show which was in big trouble to Moscow 18:12 and then to Peking to China to the 18:16 Vatican to travel throughout the 18:19 Mississippi Valley it was very exciting 18:23 and very dramatic because it broke all 18:25 kinds of rules that you had to come out 18:27 of a studio and what I took out a 18:28 program on but there were some 18:30 disappointments and what you found I 18:32 think in your book you say you you found 18:35 some of the journalists not 18:37 intellectually curious too responsive 18:40 situation oriented being following the 18:44 briefing so to speak in washing that 18:46 well television you know covers an awful 18:49 lot of ground television news and you 18:52 know what surprised me when I came to 18:54 NBC News and it was true of the others 18:57 as well 18:57 is how little really original reporting 19:00 and thinking goes on it's much easier 19:03 much cheaper much more direct if there's 19:05 a press conference to cover the press 19:06 conference if the Secretary of State or 19:08 the President or the Secretary of 19:10 Treasury is saying something or somebody 19:12 is issuing some major new development to 19:15 attend the press conference and simply 19:16 report it but really strong journalism 19:21 not just investigative journalism but 19:23 penetrating journalism that gives you an 19:25 insight into what's going on in the 19:27 world requires much more initiative and 19:29 because of the demands of the job and 19:33 because you had to do so much in such a 19:37 short period of time there was very 19:40 little original initiative reporting 19:42 going on far too little and today it's 19:45 worse also 19:47 during this period and later a kind of a 19:50 corporate mentality infected the the 19:54 news operation is that affair yes what 19:58 happened two things happened in major 20:00 ways one was all of the major networks 20:04 which were really had strong long 20:07 traditions as broadcast responsible 20:10 broadcasters probably because of the 20:12 government policy of operating in the 20:15 public interest and was sold to 20:17 outsiders in a sense to General Electric 20:20 in the case of NBC to in the case of CBS 20:26 to somebody who owned an investment 20:30 portfolio 20:32 Larry Tisch who saw the losses the sort 20:37 of leader you know the front loaded 20:40 losses that News was taking and said 20:41 what do we need all of that 20:43 why don't we need to spend all our money 20:44 it's interfering that our bottom line 20:46 even though it's an enormous ly 20:47 profitable business overall and so they 20:50 took a very different attitude toward it 20:51 and at the same time with all of the new 20:55 media coming in cable coming in and 20:57 Direct broadcast via satellite there's a 21:00 sense that a strong effort to deregulate 21:03 television to get the FCC out of this 21:06 Public Interest notion and to let the 21:08 broadcaster's compete along with 21:10 everybody else and so there is no longer 21:12 the fear or the concern about losing 21:14 licenses they were protected and about 21:16 having to use news as a loss leader in 21:20 effect and so the mentality to change 21:23 and also entertainment news as 21:26 entertainment that probably came after 21:29 the period of your royalty but how did 21:31 how did that creep in it was beginning 21:34 it was beginning to come it was quickly 21:36 apparent in news that the most costly 21:38 thing in News is covering the hard news 21:41 you know to put on nightly news programs 21:43 and besides people are getting CNN and 21:46 getting the news elsewhere but was very 21:48 cheap to put on primetime news magazines 21:51 which really are a misnomer 21:53 they're basically nonfiction 21:54 entertainment magazines and so you get 21:56 the idea in order to attract an audience 21:58 in order to attract advertisers 22:00 which follow the audience and instead of 22:02 presenting hard news about government 22:04 and about finance and about 22:06 International Affairs that we present 22:08 focus more on the entertainment aspects 22:10 of those and so it's been moving in that 22:14 direction and there also has been a kind 22:16 of a consolidation of ownership of the 22:19 media which you actually touched on a 22:20 minute ago which must it and as we begin 22:23 to talk about this this new digital age 22:25 it's a recurring problem namely that 22:28 more and more outlets fall into fewer 22:31 and fewer hands that's absolutely true 22:33 you have again a paradoxical situation 22:36 where we get many many more channels 22:37 many more news outlets on the year owned 22:40 by fewer and fewer multi media global 22:43 corporations where news used to be the 22:46 major sort of centerpiece of a broadcast 22:49 operation it's now a very minor and 22:52 relatively insignificant in terms of the 22:54 balance sheet part of that of these you 22:56 know time one or Turner the Disney ABC 23:01 and the Viacom 23:03 CBS the GE NBC News is just a small 23:07 player in those in those companies so 23:10 the whole set of priorities and focus 23:13 becomes very different and while you get 23:15 many more channels that you can tune in 23:17 to see news happening what is happening 23:20 now is you get fewer and fewer news 23:21 gathering operations they're all feeding 23:24 off of the same syndicated news 23:25 reporting services and one of the 23:28 consequences of that is the MIS 23:29 reporting of election night because 23:32 instead of having every network to its 23:34 own analysis of the news of the voting 23:36 returns for example they pulled the 23:38 coverage they had one vote a news 23:41 service reporting and that was mistaken 23:43 and they all fell into the same trap 23:46 your background it tells the story of an 23:50 interesting movement from the market to 23:53 the to the public sector back again and 23:56 so on I'm just curious how that 23:58 experience in informs your your 24:03 experience in the other realm so so what 24:06 is it what is it that that Public 24:08 Television can 24:10 learn so to speak from the marketplace 24:14 at commercial television well but I have 24:19 great respect for both sides and I think 24:23 the big problem we have is that people 24:25 don't understand really the difference 24:28 they expect corporations to serve public 24:32 needs even at the sacrifice of the 24:34 bottom line when corporations are being 24:36 judged on how much money they make for 24:37 their stockholders and that's the way 24:39 they should be judged and so while they 24:42 have of course public and 24:43 responsibilities when you have a 24:44 terrible crisis like the World Trade 24:48 Center bombing you know you wipe out 24:50 commercials and you don't think of the 24:51 financial consequences because there are 24:53 other things far more important even 24:55 though you're a commercial enterprise 24:56 but nonetheless if you're a commercial 24:59 enterprise your job is to make money not 25:02 to serve the public interest in its 25:03 broadest sense on a continuing basis 25:05 public television and its need to raise 25:08 money has gone more and more been more 25:09 and more market driven you know we'll 25:11 put on any show so we'll get viewers to 25:14 contribute to support public television 25:15 because we haven't figured out other 25:17 ways to do it 25:18 it's supposed to be non-commercial but 25:20 their commercials called underwriting 25:22 support on public television and somehow 25:25 other the two have to learn what their 25:27 priorities are and we as a public have 25:29 to understand what to expect from them 25:31 and there is a need for a non-commercial 25:35 public Freeway in effect on the 25:37 information superhighway to provide the 25:40 critically important elements in our 25:42 culture and our civic information and 25:44 education and health info information 25:46 that the marketplace is not going to 25:48 support and for us to expect that the 25:51 marketplace will provide all of that is 25:53 a big mistake so I think it's a matter 25:55 of defining what the roles of each 25:56 should be well let's talk about your new 26:01 toninho's proposal for the digital 26:06 promise it at one level your harkening 26:11 back to American history which is to say 26:13 that a critical turning points we have 26:17 found a way to fund a public resource 26:20 tell us a little 26:22 about that history and then what your 26:24 idea is yeah that's a very interesting 26:26 and quite wonderful finding in what we 26:29 did if the first concern was here we 26:32 have all of these magical and I really 26:34 mean they're magical we're just 26:35 beginning to see what they're about new 26:37 telecommunications devices in the 26:39 digital world you have the internet that 26:44 reaches the globe it's now basically 26:46 text but more and more it's getting to 26:48 be an opportunity to put pictures on as 26:50 well as words and sound and the 26:53 television set and when it all goes 26:55 digital will become much more like the 26:57 computer just as the computer is 26:58 becoming much more like the television 27:00 set and you can have interactive 27:04 programming and and curricula courses so 27:08 it's got great potential for education I 27:10 mean wonderful potential for lifelong 27:13 learning for job training it's like 27:16 great potential to take what the DNA of 27:18 our civilization which the libraries and 27:20 museums and universities have and get 27:23 them outside their walls and into the 27:25 home and into the workplace and into the 27:26 school but nobody's addressing those 27:29 issues we are spending billions of 27:31 dollars in hardware but nobody's 27:33 spending anyone you know to connect 27:34 schools to the internet but nobody's 27:36 spending any money on content I'm giving 27:38 you a long answer and looking at this a 27:43 bunch of foundations asked former FCC 27:46 chairman Newton Minow and me if we would 27:48 make some recommendations about how to 27:50 deal with the public interest needs and 27:52 potential how to fulfill that potential 27:54 and in doing our report we realized that 27:57 there's a great precedent in this 27:59 country that public education was begun 28:02 back in the eighteen seven in in the 28:06 18th century in 1787 when one of the 28:09 first acts of the new country in the 28:11 Congress was to provide Frontierland to 28:14 the new states so that they would be 28:16 able to use the revenue from that land 28:18 for public education because there's a 28:19 passionate belief in our founding 28:21 fathers under need in the democracy to 28:23 educate the public was the first time in 28:25 the history of the world was anything 28:26 like that in the middle of the Civil War 28:28 in the 19th century in the darkest days 28:30 of the Civil War Congress passed and 28:32 President Lincoln 28:34 and the land-grant colleges Act which 28:37 provided for the first time in history 28:38 for public higher education and they 28:40 said we'll take the unused for 28:42 Frontierland the publicly owned land 28:44 give it to every state as long as the 28:47 states will build public colleges and 28:49 universities to teach farmers to do 28:51 better farming and workers to do better 28:52 industry and they can use the revenue 28:56 for the contents for the textbooks and 28:58 for the costs of the schools of public 29:01 higher education and then of course in 29:03 the 20th century we had the GI Bill and 29:05 what we are saying is it's now time in 29:08 the 21st century for a similar major 29:10 initiative with these new 29:11 telecommunications digital technologies 29:14 coming in the knowledge age and the 29:16 spectrum the radio and television 29:19 electromagnetic waves that bring you the 29:21 radio and television in the old days 29:23 stations the spectrum has become 29:26 increasingly valuable and that publicly 29:28 owned spectrum because it's owned by the 29:30 public is he today's equivalent of the 29:32 public land of previous centuries so 29:34 let's use at least some of the revenues 29:36 from auctioning off the spectrum which 29:38 Congress has ordered the FCC to do the 29:41 unused portions of the spectrum which 29:42 will bring in billions of dollars let's 29:45 set aside the money that we're getting 29:48 from the spectrum to provide for our 29:50 educational needs for the future and the 29:53 upper as we did about with public land 29:56 of the previous centuries so that 29:58 there's a precedent in this country for 30:00 that and there's a need in this country 30:02 for using figure out new ways to 30:07 transform our education at every level 30:09 from this youngest kindergarten and 30:12 preschool all the way up to senior 30:14 citizens as our population grows older 30:16 and we have the technologies now that 30:19 will enable us to do that and the 30:21 question is how do we get people to 30:25 develop the models and the prototypes 30:28 and the simulations and the dramatic new 30:31 ways to transform our educational 30:33 processes but not only that to provide 30:35 civic information and to serve our 30:38 libraries and museums and our performing 30:40 arts societies so that our arts and 30:43 culture can benefit from these new 30:44 models 30:45 to provide a kind of a fund to bring 30:48 them all into the digital age and let we 30:51 are proposing with this digital 30:52 opportunity investment trusts which is 30:54 do it in an acronym and by the way it's 30:57 available online at digital promise org 31:01 so that everybody can see it there's 31:04 this idea of having this country set 31:08 aside for the future for future 31:10 generations billions of dollars we're 31:13 saying 18 billion dollars from the 31:15 auctioning of the public spectrum you 31:18 know take that money and that will 31:20 enable us to spend a billion dollars a 31:22 year in transforming education during 31:25 for education with the National Science 31:27 Foundation does with science with the 31:29 National Institutes of Health does for 31:31 health but DARPA the Army Research and 31:34 Development does for our military we 31:36 have nothing like that in education and 31:38 a recent Presidential Commission for 31:41 example found that we spend less than 31:45 1/10 of 1% on research and development 31:48 and all the money that we spend on 31:49 education low tech industries high tech 31:53 industry spend 10 to 20 percent you know 31:55 on computer computer chip industry 31:57 spends 15% to 20% on research and 32:00 development the potato chip industry 32:03 spends 3% and we spend less than a tenth 32:07 on potato chip development research we 32:10 spend less than 1/10 of 1% on education 32:12 and what is more important in this 32:14 information age than transforming our 32:17 educational system now a devil's 32:19 advocate would say well couldn't this 32:21 better be done by the private sector 32:23 well that's where I go back to the 32:25 conversation we had about the separation 32:27 of the marketplace responsibility and 32:29 the public responsibility there are 32:32 certain things and education is one of 32:33 them some of it can be done by the 32:35 private sector there's a lot of stuff 32:37 being done in terms of business schools 32:39 that it's driven by what can make money 32:41 it's very hard to figure out how to make 32:44 money serving our you know kindergarten 32:47 through twelfth grade needs it's very 32:52 difficult to figure out how to make 32:53 money 32:54 providing free political time for 32:57 candidates and for civic information 32:59 about ballot referenda and initiatives 33:02 it's very hard to provide figure out how 33:05 to make money really dealing with the 33:07 needs of our arts and cultural 33:08 institutions the marketplace doing a 33:11 fine job on the business side but this 33:14 is big gap and that's where the public 33:16 investment is needed not one of the 33:20 critiques I think that could be made of 33:23 public institutions generally and and 33:26 maybe even of PBS and efforts like this 33:30 is a kind of bureaucratization that sets 33:34 in how can we establish this trust and 33:38 avoid that from happening that's a very 33:41 good point and a very important question 33:43 and that we are saying is the trust will 33:48 focus on content the trust like let's 33:52 say the DARPA which is the army the 33:54 Defense Department's research and 33:56 development will have a very few people 33:57 who know the field we move in and out so 34:01 that they're not permanent employees and 34:03 it can make judgments based on the best 34:05 applications the best ideas that there 34:09 are and they will not do that themselves 34:11 they will fund it through contracts in 34:13 through grants and one of the proposals 34:17 is to have the National Science 34:18 Foundation which has experience has a 34:20 great record has a high reputation for 34:22 not being political we can put this in 34:26 an existing organization or an exhibit 34:28 an institution like the National Science 34:30 Foundation that's comparable so that it 34:34 doesn't develop huge bureaucracies 34:36 public television spends more money on 34:39 overhead and institutions than on 34:42 programming and that's one of the real 34:44 problems that it has but when Public 34:47 Television goes digital as all 34:48 television stations are required to do 34:50 they reach into every home in the 34:53 country there's an opportunity to 34:55 redefine it and rethink it so that it 34:58 becomes a carrying vehicle for our 35:01 museums in our libraries in our 35:03 universities also to reach into every 35:05 home 35:05 and they also have the internet to reach 35:08 into homes but we've got to help provide 35:11 what goes into those networks you've 35:17 thought a lot about citizenship you 35:21 wrote a book on how we have to redefine 35:26 citizenship in the light of the new 35:28 technologies what in looking back at 35:31 your career your experiences what what 35:33 is it that makes that extra margin 35:38 possible so that if you have information 35:41 it's meaningful information that that 35:45 people use it in effective ways because 35:48 one could make the argument that one of 35:49 our problems now is we have too much 35:51 information and we we don't have the 35:53 background and training to actually use 35:55 it well that's and that too is a very 35:58 important criticism and an accurate one 36:01 you can get amazing kinds of information 36:04 on the internet on the World Wide Web 36:06 right now what you don't have is 36:09 authoritative validated peer-reviewed 36:13 information you have some but it would 36:17 be useful to have teachers teach 36:20 responsible based on responsible and 36:22 reliable information and you have 36:25 enormous ly exciting opportunities you 36:28 know to take have kids one example is 36:32 the University of Illinois has an 36:38 electron microscope and they allow kids 36:42 all over the country who collect insects 36:44 to show their insects on the Internet to 36:47 rent time for free by the way 36:49 using these microscopes to have graduate 36:53 students to tell them and talk to them 36:55 about the anatomy of insects and the 36:57 functions of the various and seeing you 36:58 know enlarged so that these techniques 37:01 now can become available to every 37:03 classroom and every kid at home if we 37:05 only put the priority into developing 37:08 the ways of doing that and 37:11 you know I go back to ancient Greece you 37:13 talked about the changes in our 37:14 government increasingly we are moving to 37:18 a hybrid form of government which is 37:19 very different from anything we've ever 37:21 had where nothing is done in Washington 37:22 or in the state capitals weather and a 37:25 major issue without first testing public 37:27 opinion so the public is becoming a kind 37:29 of fourth branch of government thanks to 37:31 television thanks to polling thanks to 37:33 internet response instant response we've 37:36 got to have our population better 37:38 informed and really engaged in civic 37:41 activities you know everybody's dropping 37:43 out of the public wheel these days and 37:46 that's got to change and it can only 37:48 change through our education system at 37:50 one point of your book you quote the 37:52 autobiography of Stephen spender and he 37:56 had written today we have become 37:58 spectators of reality which has become a 38:01 photograph and when that was in your 38:05 book but later in the digital promise I 38:08 think it was that did you you you raised 38:11 this implication of the new technology 38:15 which is it empowers people to say I 38:18 want to see for myself so so some what 38:21 is it work here is really kind of if if 38:25 we have the resources to implement the 38:28 new technology to give us meaningful 38:31 vehicles for the superhighway but the 38:33 people can really say I want to see for 38:34 myself and it opens up all sorts of 38:37 possibilities is that fair oh it 38:38 definitely is fair when you have 38:40 television it's a one-way medium and 38:42 radio it's going from one to many but 38:45 the internet with its email and as chat 38:47 groups and its ability to respond and 38:50 the new digital television technologies 38:52 enable people to in to react and it's 38:55 having it's making for profound changes 38:57 we're no longer just couch potatoes the 38:59 kids are sitting there admittedly and 39:02 worried simply looking at the screen 39:04 playing games but we can figure out or 39:08 should be able to figure out how to 39:09 engage them in stuff that will use their 39:13 minds in the best possible ways and not 39:15 just for amusement and diversion and 39:18 entertainment well let's try to 39:22 draw on your broad experience and your 39:26 proposals and look at the events that 39:30 are occurring now this interview is 39:33 being conducted on September 12th 39:36 yesterday was the the national tragedy 39:40 the destruction of vast numbers of lives 39:49 and of major symbols of American power 39:53 and authority the the bombing of the 39:55 Trade Center and of the the Pentagon and 40:00 so let's let's have you put on your hat 40:03 as president of former president of NBC 40:06 News and a PBS and talked a little about 40:10 the coverage and what what your feelings 40:17 are about the way the media has handled 40:19 those horrible events well this is still 40:21 very early in the game obviously well 40:24 what was impressive and here I was in 40:26 San Francisco far from home which is New 40:28 York was to sit there all day long 40:32 because all my appointments were 40:35 canceled as and and watch along with 40:40 everybody else in the country what was 40:41 going on so the ability to know what was 40:45 happening to the extent that anybody 40:47 knew and to know what was happening at 40:50 the same time that the president United 40:51 States and the Secretary of Defense knew 40:53 not to panic I mean to have a sense of 40:56 what the limits are what the what the 40:58 enormity of the problems and the 41:01 catastrophe was and at the same time to 41:03 have the opportunity to talk through 41:08 email and through chat groups and get 41:11 out some of the emotions respond to 41:13 other people this morning the day after 41:15 before I came here I checked into my 41:18 email you know and I couldn't do that 41:20 under any other circumstances this is 41:22 3,000 miles away from where my computer 41:25 is but my laptop and I got messages from 41:28 all over the world from Poland from 41:30 Russia from colleagues and friends from 41:32 Japan 41:33 as well as from all parts of the United 41:36 States knowing that my family was in New 41:38 York wanting to know if wishing us well 41:41 wanting to hoping everything was was 41:43 everybody was safe and asking if there's 41:46 anything we could do and wanting to know 41:48 what was going on well that's a 41:49 tremendous release and a hugely 41:52 important element in our society that 41:56 does bring us into back into a global 42:00 small globe a single World with all of 42:02 our differences and so on and I guess 42:05 the one sense is that the anchors on the 42:08 various networks and on public PBS 42:12 station we're in a way assuming a 42:16 leadership role in bringing the 42:18 community to both experience but also be 42:23 able to absorb all the information in a 42:26 in both an emotionally helpful way but 42:31 also in in an informative way well I 42:33 think both were true PBS did not have 42:36 any coverage and television all the 42:38 public radio stations were enormous ly 42:41 good I thought and I was also impressed 42:44 by the by the network strut gestures 42:46 which very seldom succumb to the kind of 42:51 knee-jerk emotional ISM there was very a 42:55 good deal of strength being shown about 42:57 which would had not been the case in 42:59 many previous particularly the 43:00 dissection and and other scandals and 43:03 government prior to this but restraint 43:08 in terms of casualties and numbers and 43:11 speculation about causes and blame to 43:15 Olli as to who was responsible as which 43:18 was not true for example in Oklahoma 43:20 City so they've learned and I thought 43:23 that with the coverage by and large was 43:26 very responsible and very responsive and 43:28 just by and people have I think less 43:32 tolerance now for being told what to 43:35 think now that they can see for 43:37 themselves what is happening and so the 43:39 idea that not only could they see for 43:41 themselves through these pictures that 43:43 everybody's getting 43:44 but that they can also communicate back 43:48 to others as I think a very important 43:51 development one of the things that that 43:53 struck me was that on the the radio 43:59 stations the public broadcast stations 44:01 or any of the radio stations but there 44:04 was I thought more recounting of events 44:08 through individual eyewitnesses that 44:10 were quite lucid and moving whereas the 44:15 television in a way was dominated more 44:19 by the images which in a way were 44:21 created by the terrorists than some 44:23 horrible violence and that's an 44:25 interesting point and you're right radio 44:27 has to create the scene or recreate the 44:30 scene and yeah in your imagination and 44:33 so they go to the people who are there 44:35 and talk in they and particularly public 44:37 radio I think there's a very good job 44:39 what I listen to which is Morning 44:41 Edition and all things considered and 44:43 their special editions television you 44:45 get the pictures and sometimes the 44:48 endlessly repeated pictures are the most 44:50 spectacular tragedy and the most 44:53 dramatic and violent scenes so it does 44:56 have a distorting effect but as I say I 44:58 think given the enormity of the calamity 45:01 I think that Missoula Mount of restraint 45:05 was shown even on television if we had 45:08 the endowment in place that you're 45:10 talking about and we were further along 45:13 in the implementation of your digital 45:18 promise we're obviously on the threshold 45:23 of a new debate about US policy in the 45:26 world how to deal with terrorism how to 45:29 address the issue of civil liberties 45:31 once you begin doing all sorts of 45:34 security measures which may or may not 45:36 be give me a sense if the digital age 45:40 was here you know with the public 45:43 funding that you're hoping for how could 45:48 it inform that discussion of what 45:50 America should do about the future well 45:53 I'd go back to basic education 45:56 here look at the opportunity just for 45:59 example a George Lucas who does Star 46:01 Wars and as a brilliant and wonderful 46:03 kind of create a an imaginative creator 46:06 suppose he were working with educators 46:08 and with some historian like David 46:10 McCullough and he took the 46:12 Constitutional Convention and he 46:14 developed simulations sort of 3d 46:19 reconstructions and you said to the 46:22 students in effect you develop little 46:24 models that you'd be a representative of 46:27 a small state and you'll be a 46:30 representative of a big state how do you 46:32 create a nation you know and how do you 46:35 compromise what compromises are 46:37 necessary or to take what you're talking 46:40 about 46:40 one step further you're in the Oval 46:42 Office and the Secretary of Defense 46:45 gives you a briefing and you are the 46:47 president what is it that you recommend 46:49 doing and the Secretary of Commerce says 46:52 well this is the way it's going to 46:53 affect our economy and the Secretary of 46:57 Transportation says people are stuck all 47:00 over the country and what can we unleash 47:02 the airplanes again you know I'm dying 47:04 to get home from San Francisco back to 47:06 New York so that you can engage even our 47:11 youngest and our children much less 47:13 adults in developing models 47:17 participating and figuring things out 47:19 and getting them interested in civics 47:21 it's it's the imagination can run all 47:27 over the place in terms of what can be 47:28 done in creating you know you teach 47:31 pilots to fly by simulations you have to 47:36 crash planes you show what happens so 47:39 that they can get themselves address the 47:41 problems and you don't test them six 47:44 months later or three months later or at 47:46 the end of the week to see whether they 47:47 pass the test and we remembered at all 47:48 your testing right there when they're 47:50 doing the simulation and you find out 47:52 whether you crashed or not well you can 47:54 you can change the way you testing an 47:56 evaluation and teaching through these 47:59 new technologies with good teachers who 48:01 are trained to use them properly and 48:03 with good content that feeds into the 48:05 classroom and I think get kids 48:08 interested in anacs 48:09 instance civics again so that in a way 48:12 what what you're proposing is think 48:15 about how we've dealt with new resources 48:18 in the past how we've insured public 48:21 access and innovation and also the the 48:28 what it is that we need to make good 48:30 citizens who are well-rounded and and 48:33 are culturally and artistically informed 48:36 well that's that's exactly right and the 48:39 opportunity now to not just to present 48:42 entertainment and diversion you know 48:44 which is important but which we have an 48:47 overwhelming amount of and we're a wash 48:50 in it but the opportunity to present our 48:52 greatest teachers our greatest 48:55 scientists both best authors best 49:01 performers and at your convenience at 49:04 your level to do what it is that you 49:07 could be interested in if students were 49:10 watching this tape and they will be what 49:15 lessons do you would you like them to 49:18 draw from your life experience I mean we 49:22 have this this fascinating story of 49:26 moving from the public to the private 49:28 sector addressing the question of new 49:32 technologies but at the same time 49:34 maintaining a commitment to certain 49:36 basic values how would you sum it up I 49:42 would say in a very selfish way of had 49:47 great opportunities that had great luck 49:49 associated with them you know the 49:52 successes is so much a matter of timing 49:55 and luck but it also I mean I was lucky 49:59 in my parents and the training that said 50:01 do you have a responsibility back to 50:03 society not only to yourself because of 50:06 what this country this society 50:08 did for all of us I think I would hope 50:12 that the new generations and I know for 50:14 my grandchildren I see much of that 50:17 would have that sense and there's also 50:20 one other thing that I think was 50:22 important it used to I remember when I 50:25 first left left when I left my first job 50:27 Look magazine to go to CVS I called my 50:29 mother and I said I have a new job and 50:31 it's paying me more money and she said 50:33 how dare you leave that company it was 50:36 paying your salary she was a product of 50:38 the depression and people stayed with 50:41 one place until they retired assuming 50:44 they had work and my career was a career 50:48 of constant change and I think that's 50:50 more typical of what is happening in 50:53 this day and age and so people should be 50:56 able and willing and excited about 50:57 adjusting and making changes and 50:59 learning new things as scary as that can 51:02 be very often and how would you advise 51:05 students and your grandchildren to 51:07 prepare for the future 51:09 well that's it that's a question that 51:12 deals with all of life to have the 51:14 spiritual values in the end but focus on 51:18 education and focus on how to use these 51:20 new technologies not just to buy things 51:24 and not just to entertain yourself but 51:27 to improve yourself and to learn things 51:29 and to be curious about the world I mean 51:31 that is the number one fundamental issue 51:33 I remember when I first became president 51:37 of NBC News with no experience at all I 51:40 was really terrified and then I got a 51:42 wonderful note from one of the great 51:44 people in the world who had been the 51:46 head of CBS News a man named dick salon 51:48 he said I took that job and I was a 51:50 lawyer and I had known those background 51:52 and I got a note from Ed Morrow saying 51:54 you don't need a news background you 51:56 don't need to be a lot of expertise what 51:59 you need is a passionate caring and 52:01 curiosity about the world and then 52:03 you'll be all right and if you had that 52:05 passionate curiosity and caring then you 52:08 can handle anything mr. Grossman on that 52:10 positive note thank you very much for 52:14 being here today talking about your 52:17 vision for the digital future and 52:18 telling us about your fascinating story 52:20 thank you and thank you very much for 52:23 joining us for this conversation with 52:26 history