Welcome, OcelotHod! I am Brambleberry of RiverClan, your adopter. All of your instruction will be in titled lessons, and anything you want to learn will be the subject for the next lesson. I will remind you of your lessons on your talk page.
Hey, you gave me an ocelot! I'm a happy girl. That was special time you spent; thanks so much!
Some light chat:
1. I deleted the nonsense about 1 Direction and Jack Hanna in order to clean our, what, Zusammenarbeiten. Our page here.
2. I want to read about Warriors/Brambleberry, so I went to my local library's online catalog. Do I order these titles?: Warriors: Skyclan & the stranger. #1, The Rescue ... Warriors: Tigerstar & Sasha. #3, Return to the Clans ... There are lots more; just want to make sure. You'll advise me on the first book to check out? Can't wait to read them.
3. I am longing to know about your fiction writing.
4. Please skip down to where I wrote IN CAPS in parentheses. I write "frex" for "for example."
I know that there are a few things you wanted to learn, so that will be the first lesson. I will include your question in bold and your answer with no formatting.
In that article, would it be appropriate to mention that a film was made about the Tsavo Man-Eaters, "The Ghost and the Darkness"?
If you feel that The Ghost and the Darkness contains valuable information about the Tsavo Man-Eaters, feel free to mention it. Just know that another editor may remove this information. There is no page "ownership", so feel free to make any revisions you think helpful.
Okay, got it. There's probably a page on animals in film, and ...
Actually, there is no page on animals in film; the closest you get is List of films about animals, although I don't particularly trust it. The Ghost and the Darkness has its own page, though, here.
Ocelot says: Whoops! I didn't go to CHECK about animals in film, which is very unlike me. I normally check everything twice, and then check my second check again. Er, it's just being a researcher - as you know, yourself! - But, as I hadn't yet thought to look for "List of films re animals" (that phrasing is worse than Library of Congress! but I'll get used to it) - now, of course, I'll go have to look at it. Oh, I love animals! And...
-- Wait, first, this: Brambleberry, though we hardly know each other, I've missed you. I should have told you at the beginning: I live with chronic scary pain, and sometimes I can't sit at the computer, much less type for long periods of time, or at all. So sometimes I might disappear for a day or two, and believe me, it's against my wishes. I like you and want to learn as much as I can from you. You're fun and interesting, so please don't ever think I've lost interest!
Okay, thank you.
When I read the line "Bear attacks are rare, but commonplace enough to cause people living in bear habitats to become weary," I thought, "Jaded old bastard!" No, I didn't. :) But "wary", right?
Yes, I probably made some mistakes over the writing of this article. It took me about a year, and in the end I was pushing to get it finished.
... having just met you, I didn't want to start our friendship by barging in and editing your wonderful page! Jeez, please don't take it as a jibe or insult or anything. I was inviting you to change it, but I will, if you like. Have I already swallowed my foot?
No, you're fine. Many editors take offense to having their work changed almost immediately after creation, though as animal aggression took so long to create and is so massive, I assume most to all edits are fixing things that I wasn't paying attention to. Some day I have to go through and remove all the <ref name=""> tags (more on that later) for nonrepeated references.
Wow, you're all-knowing AND you're sweet and forgiving - I got lucky! Then I must try very hard to be a good student. Which won't be hard. I'm by nature a student who tries hard. And I'm confident I know what you mean by <ref name=""> tags - if you don't take care of them at your leisure, I might mosey by. (With your permission.)
All-around permission granted. This means do whatever helpful you wish with Animal aggression.
In general, does a literary work need to have won awards, or be taught in the classroom, or something similar, to earn inclusion? If it's been discussed and reviewed, is that enough?
In general, most to all books are accepted. In an article I wrote called ¡Calexico!, I could find no editorial reviews. However, it merits inclusion because it is mentioned in at least one Wikipedia article.
Right, that's good to know. I know that an article on one author's literary collection, full of award-winning stories, was rejected; the news scared me a bit. I also want to know about short stories. Over my career, I've reviewed and anthologized a lot of stories which I'd like to add to WP. Okay, Brambleberry, as a rule, should I begin with creating articles for stories that are themselves award-winners, as opposed to have been written by award-winners? I really don't know what the Administrators look for; and they don't know me.
Well, wait. I suppose the obvious thing is to email a proposed article to you, and get your advice, right? If you have the time, that is? (I read your autobio with great interest, and you do sound very busy. So I should say, "Os gwelych un dda!")
I wouldn't call it a Wikipedia rule, but it's a good rule of thumb. Not every short story is going to be considered notable. For example, "The Lady, or the Tiger?" is notable because it has become a phenomenon, and "The New York Times at Special Bargain Rates" is notable because it's Stephen King.
Yes, thank you! It has to have been discussed publicly - and I am going to consider the discussion of peers. If a story or book (BRAMBLEBERRY, HERE I FINISH WHAT I STARTED TO ASK) in SF is discussed only in a blog -- which WP guidelines advise against as a good Source for citation -- if the blog is written by Frederik Pohl, frex, *I* would consider that a better source than the New York Times. So should I go ahead and quote and cite it, and then see whether someone wants to undo it? I don't want to get into editing wars, so this might be an academic question.
Where can I find the pages of articles under review?
Under review of what? This could mean either Articles for Creation or Did You Know.
Ah. Yes, I meant AfC (and don't know the other). Thank you!!
Would you like to know how to insert images or how to upload them? For the former, you put the image name in brackets for two sides. For example, if you were to add File:The girl who owned a city ot nelson.jpg to an article, you would put [[File:The girl who owned a city ot nelson.jpg]] where you would like it to go. As for the latter, that is my one weak suit. Please ask someone at the Teahouse for that.
No, that's fine, I'm probably not quite ready yet; I'd feel happier doing some edits for a little while.
That's okay.
On my contributions page, there are several occurrences of (top) in bold print. What does this mean?
This means that the contribution you made to the article is the most recent edit to the article. If somebody else edits the article, this will go away.
So simple!
I am so grateful to you, Brambleberry - and I must certainly read Warriors, especially as I daily visit the next-door PetCo to see the kittens, and yesterday they had a veritable Brambleberry (well, he-cat, but still) look-alike of yourself.
Lest you think that I'm a horse-trainer (I wish) and always wake up before dawn, I'll remark that I live on the East Coast, the air conditioner is broken, and I've been staying up nights for the coolness and trying (poorly) to sleep during the day. In between job-hunting and reading under a ceiling fan, I've recently spent a lot of time studying WP pages to see how it's all done. (The answer seems that it's all done very differently.)
I want to keep thanking you. That's my personality. I think you're terrific! Go raibh maith agat! OcelotHod (talk) 07:44, 10 October 2012 (UTC) OcelotHod (talk) 11:39, 6 October 2012 (UTC) OcelotHod
Brambleberry, I have a question about the page I just edited, "High-concept" - I wrote:
In a 2010 essay, Pressfield invites his reader to ponder, "What exactly is High Concept?" and then teasingly goes on...
I wrote "teasingly" in the sense of "a teaser" - something that keeps the reader reading - but I am still uncertain what the WP Administrators consider to be perfect Encyclopedia-speak.
Would that be considered unprofessional, even though the term "tease" is used in the relevant profession? Honestly, when I've written for Salem Press and other encyclopedic works, usage was always laid out precisely. (I'm often horrified to see the words "recently" and "usually" in WP.) I'll follow your advice. Thanks again! OcelotHod (talk) 12:05, 6 October 2012 (UTC) OcelotHod
I see nothing wrong with it. And as for the administrators (they don't have to be capitalized, just so you know; sorry if this comes off rude), their main responsibilities are reverting vandalism and deleting articles. Usually it is other users like myself that would change what they consider to be non encyclopedia-speak. And don't feel like you have to sign your name after everything.
Understood, now, about administrators. (I didn't think they were gods; I did think they were paid salaries of the kind I aspire to.) [DELETIONS...] Because today I've come up with a few works that I want to write about -- Jane Jensen's DANTE'S EQUATION and Robert Charles Wilson's BLIND LAKE - those merely need overhauls, but also several stories by Connie Willis, award winners, which have no pages. Those will take me a couple of days - but, if I may, I'd like to submit them to you, first, and get your comments. Is that okay? I really appreciate your time and attention, you know! - Ocelot
That's fine, Ocelot. I think seeing your submissions will also give me an idea of your writing style, which can really help. I think that this will fall under "Lesson 2".
Here I'll give you comments about your writing style based on the works that you submit to me.
Okay, the easiest thing, then, is to tell you that I'm Fiona Kelleghan. (I wish I knew who created my WP page! I'd thank him or her, and beg him or her to fix it. It's out of date, as I've left the University and the Library, but the rest of it is true.) To see what I worked on yesterday, you can look at the page for James H. Schmitz, which was only hunting and gathering, as I don't know Schmitz beyond one story. I want to do much better work in my contributions.
You can click on any of the links at the bottom of the Kelleghan page; I'd suggest the Alfred Bester link for one of my early scholarly publications about an author's works. My interview with James K. Morrow is typical of my thinking and personality, but the introduction is just a few paragraphs, which is all, maybe, you need to see for my writing style. And I hope that you'll still speak to me, if and after you read it! (Still, I think it's a hilarious discussion; Jim and I laughed throughout it.)
However, I do understand that writing for an Encyclopedia is very different from writing to hook readers. If I were to edit Jim Morrow's page, I'd be as staid as I could possibly be about such a funny guy. (And I believe that I'm not allowed to quote my own published interview with him - is that correct?)
If we can have Lesson 2.5, I have a few more questions for you, please:
1. Can WP Page Titles be edited? I wish I'd made a note of the two that made me shake my head and say "What?", but I don't recall them now. Er, as a made-up example, because this was one certain problem I noticed, suppose there was a page with the title
Warrior's (novel serie's)
At the time, I couldn't edit it, and I suppose that's a good provision against vandalism.
2. I've read that it's crucial to add my Edit Summary. My computer is overdue for an overhaul. Last week, I had added a lot of information to a page, thoughtlessly not saving frequently, and my computer froze. I hit the "Save Page" button as fast as poss; the info was saved; but will I be in trouble for not explaining what I had added?
3. This one might be beyond your purview: How do I delete entries after they're Auto-entered in the Edit Summary line? -- No, I'm sure that's something I have to do with my own computer.
Brambleberry, this is my BIGGEST question so far:
WP needs a page for "Conceptual Breakthrough," which is central to SF and Fantasy, and though I love the subject, I'm not a theorist on this particular idea. But I do know which writers to consult, and I know it would link to Sense of wonder. There seems to be a plague on consulting friends in WP. (I know, frex, that though my own page is outdated, I can't fix it myself.) I'd like very much to consult John Clute, Gary K. Wolfe, Jonathan Lethem, and a few other friends on the topic. Even my boyfriend (who doesn't have a WP page, because I can't create it!) has written novels with Phildickian Conceptual Breakthroughs. Is it disallowed to create a page that only a few people can write about expertly? Loike, are Warriors experts allowed to write about Warriors, even though they consult only among themselves?
There are several questions for you, and let me say again that I am very grateful for the time that you give to me, when you are so smart and obviously so busy with lots of other activities.
Today has been a Good Day, pain-wise, and I hope it will continue, but it's unpredictable, and I won't expect you to be predictable if you get busy with something. Okay? Thanks very much again, and I'll sign myself off as OcelotHod (talk) 09:09, 10 October 2012 (UTC) OcelotHod
Hey, you gave me an ocelot! I'm a happy girl. That was special time you spent; thanks so much!
Yeah, I like giving people "logos" in a way based on their usernames or special attributes. There are no Brambleberry pictures on WP, so I decided that since I was a WikiPuma, a puma would have to suffice.
Really super nice of you; and who doesn't love pumas? You'll have realized that I've lived in South Florida all my life. One of my very special memories was of seeing a Florida cougar, when I was a kid. My parents were driving us down to the Keys, and my dad slowed, pulled over to the side, and whispered, "Over there." She was hanging out at the exposed roots of a tree a little above the road, a gorgeous golden female, panting in the heat and staring into the middle distance. She paid no attention to us for a few minutes. Then she turned and was gone. My brother said he saw a cub following at her tail. Our consolation, at the end of that trip, was that we kids found a box turtle, whom our parents allowed us to keep as a pet for a couple of hours, and then explained to us where and how to release it. As a city girl, I have an enormous appreciation of why wild animals need to stay in the wild. Remind me to tell you about my trip to Wisconsin.
And now I want you to tell me about a special Wild Animal Event of your own. If you will. (More than one, even.)
My cats are Mischka and Boris. What about yours?
Pumas have been my favorite animal for a long time; I really admire their strength and grace. I've seen tons of wild animals hanging out in the city, and not just the traditional ones. There are many different kinds of birds of prey in my area, from red-tailed hawks to peregrine falcons. I've seen one of the former and two of the latter. I saw a gray fox crouched in the bushes on the side of the road, and there was a coyote in plain sight standing on a hill close to the sidewalk. He was watching the cars as if trying to find where to cross, but as soon as I noticed him he noticed me and our eyes locked. I, unfortunately, live in an area where pumas and wolves have been exterminated, although there have been sightings farther north. On a trip to California, though, I went past mountains and saw the silhouette of a puma looking down at the people.
I have a cat named Claire, who had a tumor a little while back, but it was only benign and she's fine now. I believe in getting a young cat when one is getting older so that it takes less of a toll on you when the older cat dies.
I want to read about Warriors/Brambleberry, so I went to my local library's online catalog. Do I order these titles?: Warriors: Skyclan & the stranger. #1, The Rescue ... Warriors: Tigerstar & Sasha. #3, Return to the Clans ... There are lots more; just want to make sure. You'll advise me on the first book to check out? Can't wait to read them.
Brambleberry is mentioned the most in Crookedstar's Promise, where she is the medicine cat for the majority. She is touched on in Secrets of the Clans, though I don't think you would appreciate that without reading the other books in the series. Chronologically, the first book is Into the Wild.
Brilliant! My library has "Into the Wild" (Erin Hunter) - I'll go check it out tomorrow, if it isn't f'ng storming all day again. I'm looking forward to it.
I am longing to know about your fiction writing.
I enjoy writing and reading about animals, so much of my writing is centered around animals in three styles: a style similar to Warriors and Feather and Bone: The Crow Chronicles (they can talk to each other, but don't understand other species, and that's where the anthropomorphism stops); "anthro", which is animals standing upright, speaking like humans, wearing clothes, using tools, acting like humans, etc. but retaining basic animal shape; and parahuman, which is human and animal combined. I have not been published yet, but I am working on a variety of novels and short stories. Dark fantasy is my strong suit.
Well, this is great, then, because if you have a short story available, or can extract a short story from your novel, then please let me write to Ellen Datlow or Gordon Van Gelder and urge them to take a look. - I beg your pardon, of course you can submit anywhere you like, but they're friends and even if Gordon doesn't accept your story for F&SF, Ellen might very well accept it for an anthology. Maybe I'm jumping ahead; I should ask whether and where you've submitted, of course. Still, you're helping me lots, and I do realize that I wrote "2.5" when I meant "1.5" and you didn't make fun of me, and of such tiny things are great friendships made.
I love Ellen Datlow's anthologies, especially Tails of Wonder and Imagination. As for Gordon, I'll have to look at more of his work.
Can WP Page Titles be edited? I wish I'd made a note of the two that made me shake my head and say "What?", but I don't recall them now. Er, as a made-up example, because this was one certain problem I noticed, suppose there was a page with the title Warrior's (novel serie's) At the time, I couldn't edit it, and I suppose that's a good provision against vandalism.
Page titles can be "edited" in a way by moving them to the correct title. This can be done by hovering over the little arrow next to "View history". It should say "move". Only autoconfirmed users can move pages, and you can only move a page that hasn't been move-protected. Move protection is inserted if vandals move pages to something ridiculous.
I think I understand. I also think that I'll write to you first when I come across such a situation again.
I've read that it's crucial to add my Edit Summary. My computer is overdue for an overhaul. Last week, I had added a lot of information to a page, thoughtlessly not saving frequently, and my computer froze. I hit the "Save Page" button as fast as poss; the info was saved; but will I be in trouble for not explaining what I had added?
No, you won't get in trouble. It might affect your chances of becoming an administrator if less than sixty percent of your edits have a summary, though I bet that's the last thing on your mind. Edit summaries can be helpful to tell the basic edits, but they aren't totally necessary.
"Whew!"
This one might be beyond your purview: How do I delete entries after they're Auto-entered in the Edit Summary line? -- No, I'm sure that's something I have to do with my own computer.
Hmm, it depends on what you mean. If you mean that you messed up on an edit, you can undo it by going to "View history", selecting "Compare selected revisions", and pressing "undo" for the latest revision. If you mean you messed up the edit summary line, that can't be fixed. Sometimes I find a minor edit to make and explain my error in the edit summary line, but DON'T DO THAT! Seriously, I'm pretty sure that's frowned upon. I've never been told that it's wrong, but I don't want you thinking that it's okay and get you in trouble.
My bad. I meant to write Autofill. However, now I'm alarmed by your warning not to use the edit summary for explaining errors. I don't think I've done that yet, but I might have done, any moment now, so thanks!
Oh, I didn't mean to scare you. I'm not advocating this (I repeat: Not. Advocating. This.) but most people won't look if it's a smaller article where you're the number one editor.
WP needs a page for "Conceptual Breakthrough," which is central to SF and Fantasy, and though I love the subject, I'm not a theorist on this particular idea. But I do know which writers to consult, and I know it would link to Sense of wonder. There seems to be a plague on consulting friends in WP. (I know, frex, that though my own page is outdated, I can't fix it myself.) I'd like very much to consult John Clute, Gary K. Wolfe, Jonathan Lethem, and a few other friends on the topic. Even my boyfriend (who doesn't have a WP page, because I can't create it!) has written novels with Phildickian Conceptual Breakthroughs. Is it disallowed to create a page that only a few people can write about expertly? Loike, are Warriors experts allowed to write about Warriors, even though they consult only among themselves?
If you can interview them professionally and get that interview published, that would be okay. Personal interviews are not considered reliable sources on WP. I suggest creating a draft in your sandbox if you do find some so that you can get it perfect. I don't know that there are any "Warriors experts" per se, apart from the authors, but there are definitely those that have read all the novels and have written notes about it or have otherwise devoted much of their time to Warriors. Generally, a reliable source has to be published in a way, although if it's online it must be a trusted website. If the few people that can write about a conceptual breakthrough expertly have written enough about their topic, then it would generally have enough sources to be okay. Alternatively, you could write a stub with what you can source and add {{Template:Expert-subject}} to the beginning, calling for the few experts on it to add their opinion. You may find that there are more experts than you think.
Of course, you're right! There MIGHT be. I was speaking of the folks who invented the term; but of course there might be new emendations and additions.
Brambleberry, you've been terrifically helpful, and I know that I spent a lot of time chatting tonight rather than getting down to specifics. I think that's okay, though, because, as you pointed out, you'll know how to advise me better if you know how I write and think.
And I do tend to write freely how I feel and think; so you'll be able to decide soon whether or not you can stand me; but (Ocelot laughs) this could be a wonderful test of whether Floridians and Wisconsonians can get along. After all, entire volumes have been written about the ancient battles between those two volatile, deadly states... And ha, maybe there's a story there. Probably not. But any bizarre idea is worth considering for a story idea.
Brambleberry, again I've been up all night and I'm exhausted, though cheerful. You cheer me up, and cheering up is worth its price in gold for people who live in chronic pain, you know. I might even leave what special wealth I have to you... Okay, Boris the Big (in his own mind) Great Black Cat just rushed in, smashed all over my keyboard, leaped about 6 different directions at once, and then settled down on my lap to lick his paw.
BORIS! Say hello to Brambleberry! She's over there! Look Northeast! (laugh) Boris likes you very much, I'm sure. He's a black kitten. All right, talk to you later!
I guess I'll talk to you later! And that Florida/Wisconsin thing might be a good post-apocalyptic novel. One major civilization in Florida, the other in Wisconsin, and they battle for control over the ruins of America... nah, too much like The Stand.
Then... We'll call it The Teetering-Over Fall! (laugh) I confess I love The Stand, but can I tell you an embarrassing anecdote? In 1993, I attended my very first ICFA (which desperately needs a WP page, and I have the historical book here in my house to create it), and I was a bit shy and ready to be befriended by anyone.
I already had my eye on John Kessel, whom I knew I'd be writing about, but (bizarrely for this gal full of laughter and wearing leggings and tank-top rather than a business dress), it was the pair of grim horror mavens Douglas E. Winter and Dennis Etchison, who grabbed me the first evening for a pre-dinner glass of wine. Neither berate nor interrogate is the right word for how they put me through my paces that hour (horse-training talk again), though it felt like it.
I told them that I'd been asked to select about 30 or so stories for a new horror anthology, and thought I'd begin with a selection from The Stand, and Winter sternly told me that every idiotic anthologizer already mentioned or selected it, and I should choose something less off the beaten path. Brambleberry, I was humiliated, which always makes me laugh; a good choice, as it turned out that they both wanted me to choose their stories for this antho that never came to fruition, anyhow. I remember praising Etchison's classic zombie story "The Late Shift," and saying how hiliarious it was (it is!), and he grumped, "That isn't supposed to be a funny story!"
Again, bizarrely, one of the two later told me he'd fallen in love with me that night. Crikey!
Time to put my cat where my mouth is: I think my very first Page will be on the International Conference for the Fantastic in the Arts. I'll send you my essay later today. Thanks, again, for everything!
I often find humor in things that aren't supposed to be humorous, and then feel awkward about it. Have you read The Stand: Complete & Uncut Edition? I read the "last" 800 pages of that 1153-page tome in one day when it was due back at the library. I don't believe in renewing library books. I look forward to reading your essay.
Brambleberry, hi, hello. I have been really looking forward to talking to someone as intelligent as you again, after a couple of frustrating days -- and I have to immediately apologize, too, for having written to you some needless yakking.
Since my computer is screwy, please allow me to apologize for my cat doing some of the recent typing (by which I mean, Boris did a great leap, trying not to hit the keyboard, but he did, and f'd up my system. I've tried to solve it and it looks as though I'm writing to you again, now). Better yet, please let me ask a few questions which might actually be in our Lesson Plans. (And I want to hear more about Claire, and falcons, and your other wonderful animal stories.)
If you can, and I know you're busy, please let me know if you can manage another Lesson Plan:
1. How do I cite another WP page?
(Making up an example... If I'm writing about Cat-Dragons, how do I link to the pages on Cats or Dragons?)
2. How do I explain how readers should discern between the fictional-universe-world of, say, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and our real world? Are there semantic or punctuational phrases or cues that I should know about?
3. What is an AMBIGUATION RE BOT?
You are super, and I appreciate your help very much. I'm smart in some ways, and I know when to ask for help in all other ways. OcelotHod (talk) 06:45, 14 October 2012 (UTC) Ocelot
How do I cite another WP page? (Making up an example... If I'm writing about Cat-Dragons, how do I link to the pages on Cats or Dragons?)
On the bottom of most articles there should be a "See also" section. Place the name of the Wikipedia page there. If there isn't, you can add that section; it should go directly above references. If a specific section in particular is drawn heavily from another article, you place a "hatnote" under the title of the section saying {{Main|The article this is drawn from}}. In addition, you would add this article to the "see also".
How do I explain how readers should discern between the fictional-universe-world of, say, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and our real world? Are there semantic or punctuational phrases or cues that I should know about?
I would usually begin a sentence with, say "In the Buffyverse..." for in the Buffy world and "In our world..." for the real world, although this can get repetitive. Therefore, I would try to group sentences about the Buffyverse together into a paragraph with the topic sentence being "In the Buffyverse..." and likewise for the real wordl.
What is an AMBIGUATION RE BOT?
A bot is a piece of software controlled by a user. It performs tedious, repetitive tasks that the average human would not want to do on their own. An "AMBIGUATION RE BOT" probably spends most of its time with disambiguation pages. Can you give me an example of an edit this bot made?
I'd be glad to discuss birds of prey, an American Shorthair who thinks she's a warrior, and my devious parahumans any time.
Hi! Sorry about my silence; I've missed you. And thanks very much for your answers! I understand what you've explained.
I haven't written partly because of my splenic flexure pain, but mostly because my computer monitor died on Saturday. Frustrating! I've borrowed one from a friend so that I can write to you and a few other important people.
Brambleberry, I've had writer's block for several months now, but I woke up yesterday with a story idea. A sort of Halloween horror story. I've never written a horror story, so I would love it if you would be a beta reader for me. But no promises about when I'll finish it; probably in the next couple of weeks, after I do some research.
Again, lots of thanks!
Sorry to hear that. I had a similar flash of insight recently from reading Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling anthologies. It involves tricksters heavily. I am eager to read your story. A tip I'd like to add right away: Halloween started out as a Celtic festival, so if you can bring elements of Celtic mythology into it, it can weave easily.
Brambleberry, I am borrowing a friend's computer. Mine has a "sys fan failure" and, because of the rain (rain skirts? is that the word I want?) thanks to Hurricane Sandy, I haven't been able to get it fixed; I hope I will in the next couple of days! I want to repeat that I've missed chatting with you and I am confident that we'll be back on track this week. So I've been writing and drawing on paper (I'm not very good at drawing, but I have an idea that I think I can sell to The New Yorker), and I've been hoping very much that you did not happen to travel to the East Coast this past week or two! All best to you, and I look forward to learning more from you. Cheers! OcelotHod (talk) 12:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC) OcelotHod
Oh no! The one thing I prefer about the Midwest to the East is the fact that we never get hurricanes here. Sandy gave us some crazy waves, though. I'm glad to know that you're alive! I look forward to hearing more when you get your computer fixed. Brambleberry of RiverClanmeow 21:53, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello again! I am still borrowing a computer and the darndest awkwardest keyboard, so this is taking forever to type, but my own dear computer is being fixed today. Brambleberry, I do want to create a new page, as you suggested, but my new idea is to write about a person, not a book. She is Lucy Madox Brown, daughter of Ford Madox Brown and wife of William Michael Rossetti. I don't know a thing about her, really, except that she's turned up in a novel I'm reading by Tim Powers (the title is Hide Me Among the Graves, and I might want to create a page about that, next).
Lucy Brown does appear important in her own right. May I take a few days to research her, and then present my findings to you, for you to say Yea or Nay to, about submitting for WP publication?
I'd be really grateful for ANY comments you make, you know! Thanks again, ever, you great big cat, you!
You're welcome! I recommend using Template:Infobox person for her. When you finish it, let me know, I'll look at your sandbox, and I'll present my comments here.
Dear Brambleberry, I have missed talking with you!
I mentioned that I live with chronic pain, right? Well, these past few months it's gotten terrifyingly bad. I will see a new doctor on Monday, but I've missed talking with you not only because I've been suffering (pain and insomnia both suck), but also because my computer died. It's with a friend who knows how to fix it, but for weeks I haven't called him, because it hurts awfully even to sit at a computer.
However, because I've been mostly lying in bed reading, I've been taking slow notes on matters that I would love to contribute to WP, and just now I've read a passage in a book that I really want to add where it would be appropriate. (I'm borrowing a friend's computer now.) Perhaps you can suggest the right WP subject or page?
What I've looked for, briefly, before deciding to come to you, is a page about the cliché that villains always explain their villainy before attempting to kill the hero (and then failing to).
The book is Mary Stewart's My Brother Michael. (And, btw, can we change the heading of that page to italics, to show it's a title?) The heroine faces the villain and knows that he intends to kill her, to silence her. Stewart writes:
If I could just keep him talking...if I could keep alive for just a few more minutes...perhaps the miracle would happen and I wouldn't die. Murderers were conceited, weren't they? They talked about their murders?
The ellipses are Stewart's. I can't remember ever seeing, before this, any explanation why the killer would explain himself.
Brambleberry, I hope you're great, and I really really hope that when I see the doctor, he'll give me a prescription for relief. I would love to return to chatting and contributing, you know!
I wish you all the best. Please don't rush to answer, as I don't think I'll bother to borrow a computer again before Monday evening, unless I suddenly feel great. I do hope that you're yourself in great health and happiness! Hoping to talk with you soon, Ocelot.
I'm so sorry! Welcome back, Ocelot. In terms of how I'm doing, I've spent a lot of time alone to really buckle down to writing.
To change something to italics, you insert two singular apostrophes to either side. Some people try to use quotation marks, but it doesn't work.
The closest thing that I have at the moment to the page that you wish is Villain#Portraying and employing villains in fiction. I'm afraid that the page simply doesn't exist, and mention of that cliché I couldn't find anywhere.
\\\\\\
Hey, thank you, you answered my precise questions! Here's what I posted on the Ocelot page, before I remembered to come here:
Ocelot returns
Hello, hello, Brambleberry, are you reading this?
I have finally gotten my computer back from my friend - alas, Brambleberry, he says he can't fix it! Or, rather, he has provided me a brand new hard drive, and has left the old drive in the CPU, but this means that I've lost (gulp) over 15 years of writing.
I won't consider them LOST, because I can't bear the thought. So I'm thinking of all my stories and essays as lost *for now*, but surely replaceable.
Okay. None of this is *your* problem, and I really do want to keep learning about WP. Er, I've forgotten what we were last talking about.
I do remember saying that I wanted to create some new pages (for fiction; I remember I mentioned a biographical page about a woman connected with the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood), but I also would have said that I'd like to write such a page and submit it to you, first, before I even attempted to put it online.
Brambleberry, I've had a bad, pain-filled year, but the happy news is that I'm seeing a new doctor and he's given me some meds that are actually helping to kill the pain, yay! I might actually become a contributing member of society again. (That sounds silly, I know, but if you ever have had even a headache, you know what it's like to beg for the pain to stop so that you can become, yay, creative again.)
I really do think I'm *back*, now, so that we can talk again whenever you, yourself, have the time - I know that you're super busy with all your projects.
Let me repeat that I'm grateful to you and that I think you're brilliant, and I'm glad that I'm your adoptee.
Cheers, and I hope this new computer will continue to work, and let's talk again soon, okay!
All best! - Ocelot
I'm thrilled to hear that you're doing better! I'm sorry to hear about the computer, though. Ah, well, maybe a clean slate will unlock genius for you. When my old computer went blind (everything worked, but the screen went completely black and you couldn't see a thing, though it worked), I had all my files transferred to the new one. However, I had completely lost of Microsoft Works, where most of my ideas were saved. Without being able to access any of these, I slowly forgot about them and got new ideas that I consider to be better. However, I still prefer Works over Word.
I'm actually not quite that busy at the moment; winter is a dragging period for me, but it's also the time when I get the most writing done. I'm almost finished with a short story and three chapters of a novel. This is also the greatest time for procrastination. Sometimes I unplug my laptop and go somewhere where all the wireless networks are password-protected where I don't know the passwords so that I can't go online, but this usually backfires when I have to look up, say, what the Anglo-Saxon word for "leader" is, what sword an African wild dog would be most likely to carry if they carried swords, or the dimensions of a Rottman.
What we were last talking about was how you wished to create a page for Lucy Madox Brown, although previously you wished to create a page for "conceptual breakthrough".
Hello! I am so glad to be able to talk with you again, here on my new computer. (My old files are still lost, but I hope to regain them.)
I really have missed you! Oh, as it's the New Year, let me say: I hope you had some fun during the holidays, and I am still super interested in your writing. After having lost all my files, I sort of took on your attitude and started writing a new story, but I'm not feeling confident about it and I'd love to ask your opinion.
And I'm glad you reminded me about my hopes to Begin Writing Seriously For WP re Lucy Madox and the Conceptual Breakthrough; you're great, you know, because you're (at least momentarily) serving as my memory. What I mean is that I always have tons of ideas (I'm sure you know the feeling) and I do want to contribute those articles, and many more.
I've been doing some desultory additions to WP, about dinosaurs and not much else. I still have insomnia (I manage about 3 hours of sleep every 24 hours), so please forgive me if I'm rambling. But now (with a cat in my lap) I think I'm relaxed enough that I really might sleep.
This is importunate of me, but I'd love to see what you're writing - or, no, let's say that I'd like to discuss your story ideas, which is far less intrusive. And I want to ask what you think about this time-travel story I've come up with. And now I'm repeating myself. I did have a fun New Year's Eve, what with some champagne and lots of playing with the cats. You be well, and I hope to hear from you soon. OcelotHod (talk) 10:32, 1 January 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
Hmm, time travel. I'm intrigued. Hopefully this won't fall into the category of everything else in time travel (The Time Machine/kill grandfather/kill Hitler/save JFK) that has already been done. My New Years was rather boring, although I did see Django Unchained. Insomnia affects me as well, and so I always read when I can't sleep (which explains why I have some of Animal Farm memorized). I also end up getting some of my best ideas in the middle of the night when I'm in a half-dazed stupor.
With my writing, the biggest thing I have going on is a sort of "urban fairytale" work. However, there are no princesses or whatnot. It's fewer fairytales and more fables and folktales, and they're animals. E.g., the Big Bad Wolf, Puss in Boots, Reynard, Ysengrimus, Noble, the Black Dog/Hound of the Baskervilles. They were displaced and can still shapeshift into their forms, but it hurts them. They're trying to get back home, but there are also murders and the main character, a female Big Bad Wolf, is blamed because her parents were blamed for murder in the past. There are epigraphs at the beginnings of parts and interludes from the stories the main characters come from.
I hope you're well in the future and that your cats haven't caused too much damage this holiday season.
Hi again! I still grin every time I come here and see the Ocelot you framed for me.
Brambleberry, seriously, I think your fiction sounds damned good.
Will you send me a favorite sentence? I'll send - wait, I can't, until. But I would love a line about Reynard and about the Black Dog. And an epigraph. I know, you haven't asked for help, but I think I could find a fiction agent for you. (Geez! That sounds arrogant. I just mean to help, if you want it.)
Can I tell you about my time travel story? The text is lost, but the idea is still in my head, and I'd be grateful if someone as sharp as you could ask some sharp questions.
The story is called "The Greatest Fantasy Calendar in the World."
In this, our world, Josh is a fanboy who is putting together, with some friends, comic books and, most recently, because the holiday season is approaching, a Fantasy Calendar. The committee members chat about things such as: October always has to be orange [you ever noticed that, Brambleberry?], for pumpkins, and maybe a black cat. But Josh was once a twin, and his twin, he was told when he was about 8, ran off to join the circus. This is so ridiculous that nobody except a naif such as Josh would believe it. And then Josh receives a packet of photos from Borneo. The twins had always said that nothing could be as wonderful as a letter from Borneo. Josh opens the package and finds it full of photos, acutely taken but badly aimed photos, but obviously real, such as a unicorn, asleep, snoring, ass-first; a gryphon, fallen from a height with a hawk in its claws; a leopard-type cat, lazing on its back, with a small penis erection under the sun. Clearly, not photos anyone would send to a publisher unless badly in need of money or attention.
Josh's lost twin didn't go to a circus, but wound up in a parallel universe: where Time works according to the will of the Father Time Snails, so that time spirals, rather than progressing forward.
There's more, but that's probably enough to start you coughing and saying, "WTF?" Oh, I should mention that I had the help of Dr. Steven Howe, rocket scientist, to work on the time travel, so that it's not nearly as nonsensical as it seems.
Now that I've shown myself fearless in exposing my fiction, I'll make myself look even worse: I've started working on the "Conceptual Breakthrough" page.
It starts:
Conceptual Breakthrough
The term conceptual breakthrough refers to an experience a reader may have while enjoying a science fiction (also "sf" or "SF") story or novel. Peter Nicholls compares it with paradigm shifts, or changes in basic assumptions, in science. At some point during the story, the reader realizes that an assumption about the premises of the story (an assumption perhaps caused by comparison with scenarios previously encountered in reading) is profoundly mistaken; this mistaken perception is deliberately caused by the author of the work.
The conceptual breakthrough is akin to a surprise or twist ending, but is considered much more powerful. For one thing, it can occur early in a story or novel, and thus reset the reader's understanding of what will follow. (For example, in Grass by Sheri S. Tepper, allusions to fox hunting confuse the protagonist, Marjorie, who soon learns that the "mounts" used in riding to hunting "foxes" are not horses, as she had assumed, but murderous natives of the planet Grass, who pursue the native "foxen" to death.)
I have a lot more written down, but I need to know whether the basic statement makes sense. I'll appreciate any comments!
OcelotHod (talk) 10:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
Your fiction sounds wonderful! I'd like to read more about the photos especially. And it's not nearly as confusing as you assume that it is, although I'd like to find out how exactly he got to the parallel universe (unless, of course, that's a mystery of the story.) As for my work, while Tate/the Big Bad Wolf is the protagonist, I would probably have to say either Ryan/Puss in Boots or Reynard (poor guy doesn't get a name change, so everyone knows who he is) would be my favorite supporting character. As for Detective Conall/the Black Dog, he's more of a minor character and so I haven't written a lot about him, although he is integral towards the very end.
With the conceptual breakthrough page, I have a few tips: first, in Wikipedia pages, as with scientific guides, the first time that the titular term shows up in the work, it is bolded. For example, the first sentence would begin "The term conceptual breakthrough refers to...". Second, remove the "(also "sf" or "SF")" in the first sentence, as in most Wikipedia pages any listed abbreviations or other terms are on the page linked to, in this case science fiction. Third (and this is the least important), remove the set of parentheses around the Grass example. Generally, examples that will sufficiently help a reader's understanding of what you are referring to do not have parentheses, as the punctuation can symbolize that something is not as important as it sounds.
Also, here's a tip that will come in handy for all Wikipedia pages you write: when writing about a concept, e.g. a conceptual breakthrough or aggression, you will need a source for your definition. You can either do an inline reference, which involve the <ref></ref> tags, or you can simply say "The term conceptual breakthrough, according to (source) by (author), refers to...".
Hi! I'll deal with the Conceptual Breakthrough first:
I have taken many more notes than I dumped on you: examples of authors, etc. I figured those authors, such as Tepper, will have their own subcategory; otherwise, your comments on parentheses noted and understood.
I've also collected quotes from Brian Stableford and Brooks Landon, and yesterday I phoned (that is, left messages for) Gary K. Wolfe, who might even have invented the term. He's a friend, as is John Clute, and I hope to get help from both of them. My own bf wrote a book that contains a C.B., so I intend to mention it, in hopes that someone will create a page for him. (I know the rules say I can't create a page for a friend, even if I've written scholarly work about him.)
All your other points: duly noted! I would probably have forgotten about the basic bold font.
Working backward: How much do I LOVE that the Wolf is the protag? yay! I also like that the Black Dog is the detective at the end: how sweet a reversal of The Hound of the Baskervilles!
And further backward: Geez, I think I created seven photos that Josh receives in the mail. I started writing this some years ago, see, and then began rewriting just before Doom Struck. (Lol. If I can't laugh about the death of my computer and all its documents, what can I do?)
The Greatest Fantasy: (1) The Snails of Time (I don't call them that, they're just Fathers of time, but I'm goofing on myself) occasionally whip their tails or antennae out and capture pieces of other worlds, or unfortunate little kids. I do mention this eventually, but how Josh's twin ended up in the other world is something he barely remembers and that I remark on only casually or inferentially. (2) I always thought that nothing would be as wonderful as receiving a letter from Borneo. I recently received a letter from Malawi, with Lion Stamps postmarked, but nope, it still wasn't as wonderful. (3) I remember one of the photos was a Dryad slipping out of her tree. Totally naked, not even a wisp of green dress, so, again, inappropriate. I think it was a dragon lazing on its back, not a cat; my black cat Boris does occasionally look like Smaug in profile. Oh, yes, I remember now: It was a dragon showing its scrotum (which Boris doesn't have any more; Boris just gets little tiny erections when he cleans his tummy). Hence the mental connection, I guess. (5) I am sure I came up with ideas for all 12 pages of the calendar, but Josh's twin, who hasn't yet revealed himself, being much older now, and also traveling in a swirl of time rather than in a progression, wanted to offer just a few photos. They do have photography, in that other world, though it's a fantasy world, where fantasy mixes with science. Dang it, Brambleberry, I can't recall what the other photos were now!
So, hey, if you have suggestions, shoot them over! They weren't all meant to be ugly, you know; just safely taken (when the dragon is asleep, frex).
A really fun part of the story was when the committee is discussing what colors to use on each page of the calendar. White for January, February, December, and probably November, because they are such cliches! Green for June and July; dusty for August; maple leaves for Sept.; orange for October. I repeat, if you have suggestions, send them, because while I do hope to restore my files, I might actually have to rewrite the whole damn thing. OcelotHod (talk) 12:43, 9 January 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
Without being able to access any of these, I slowly forgot about them and got new ideas that I consider to be better. However, I still prefer Works over Word.
How rude of me! I fully intended to commiserate with you about this, and instead I was all about myself. I'm usually not so self-centered, honestly. - And, yes, I remember Works! At least, I think I do; I used it in a class in college (though my college years were earlier than yours). If I'm right, at least the proto-version of Works would allow you to delete a sentence with one tap, rather than mouse-dragging and then clicking DEL. I was fond of it and found it easy to use; which was good, as I wrote some important term papers using Works.
But, aw, honey Brambleberry, I've been acting as though I'm the lone victim, and you've lost files, too. I'm trying to be as philosophical about it as you are. Please, as you're the boss here, you're allowed to tell me to listen to you, once in a while!
And I'm longing to know what a Rottman is. An invention of yours? OcelotHod (talk) 14:02, 9 January 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
While nobody is "totally good" and "totally evil" as they are in the inspirations I draw from, I do like reversals such as the Black Dog/Hound of the Baskervilles being a detective. The Wolf's little brother, Felan, is Ysengrimus, and therefore he holds a grudge against Reynard. Sometimes I'll think to myself "oh, this character will be of this species because they look like it! (e.g. John Wilkes Booth being a ram because of his hair) This'll be easy! Then suddenly I'm immersing myself in literature to find the perfect example of the species to use and how and why they got transported to our world. For Booth, I finally decided on Aries.
With the photographs, this is sort of like the dryad one: a selkie coming out of the water and slipping out of her seal skin. Another one could be a rougarou sleeping with a half-eaten dinner under its foreleg. And as for the calendars, moons have various titles: for example, January is the Wolf Moon (hence the rougarou).
As for Works, my favorite advantage over Word was that it didn't want to have a paragraph all on one page. I swear, more often than not I'm adapting my language so that the paragraphs all fit evenly on a page in Word so that it doesn't go to the next page and leave a giant, gaping white space. It's horribly frustrating. In addition, I liked the templates, which I too used for papers, and the to-do list.
As for the Rottman, it's a cross between a Rottweiler and a Doberman Pinscher that's used for another book about dogs, anthropomorphized Watership Down style. In this particular case, a male, stray Rottweiler mated with a female, domesticated Doberman Pinscher. When the owner found out (1) she was pregnant, (2) it was with a stray, and (3) the stray wasn't even another Doberman, he threw her out into the cold. However, her pups were born at the wrong time of year and only one made it: Neco. The Doberman herself wasn't doing so well, so once her pup was weaned she handed him over to his father, Luscus, who ran the pack Munio. Neco became, little by little, psychopathic as a result of his early life. His father died, and by right of inheritance he took over Munio and enforced a no sola (stray) or domus (domesticated dog) policy on Munio territory. Not recognizing his old, arthritic mother, she fell victim to this policy. He has another bastard half-brother named Iuvo, as Luscus had three main mates: Neco's mother Pecus, Iuvo's mother Pervellere, and his third (who bore him no pups) Cortex. Iuvo had a similarly messed-up life, and Caedes, a Karst Shepherd from another pack named Pervivo, accidentally crossed the Munio border when hunting, and both Neco and Iuvo saw it happen. They were going to kill her when her mate, the Šarplaninac Magnus, found them. Neco, no matter how crazy he was, knew it was futile to pick a fight with Magnus, and backed away. Iuvo, however, tried to fight Magnus, and the Šarplaninac crippled the Pitweiler (Iuvo, whose mother Pervellere was a pit bull) as a warning.
I don't know how I quite got there from what a Rottman is. I frequently go off on tangents. While most strays are mixes, for this book I purposely chose breeds that were suited for specific jobs (e.g. most hunters are hounds) and some because I like them (the main character Laena is a wickedly clever Bordernese female).
(1) I am fascinated! Wow, what a world you've created! Can I ask many questions?
(2) "While nobody is totally good and totally evil"... and ... "I do like reversals" - then the fantasy world had better look out, if THIS is where you begin. You can start deciding what shape of mansion you'll choose to live in. I prefer Hard SF to fantasy any day, but I want to be in line to buy the first several copies of your books (autographed, please). You're going places.
(2a) And I really would like to introduce you to Sheila Williams. If you have any short fiction to send her, I'll tell her to pay attention to you. Look, I'm not just doing this because you're helping me, okay? I am really excited about a new writer in the field.
(3) "The Wolf's little brother, Felan, is Ysengrimus" - Okay, you know "Felan" suggests "feline" and "Ysengrimus" in this context is either a nom de guerre or a species. Explain, please!
(4) Ysengrimus - The name suggests as many things to me as it probably did to you, when you came up with it. But what a gorgeous name. (Isengrim!) As authors do often like to ask other authors "how did you come up with your character names?", I'm going to ask how you worked with the myths and letters to come up with this one.
(5) I like how you casually write "therefore he holds a grudge against Reynard." I'm pretty sure I know what you mean; but oh wow, I can't wait to read how you set THAT one up. Bramble, this is another author-to-author chat: Sometimes it's hard for me, and sometimes it's fun, to write a scene of conflict. When I've done so, it's usually been ... okay, in "Miami Gothic", husband and wife become enemies, because he recognizes magic happening around them, and she refuses to, and she pretty much fucks things up. (Oh, geez, there's another story I wrote, wanted to rewrite, and is now lost.) So, how do you convey that the two have problems between them?
(6) "John Wilkes Booth being a ram because of his hair" - Ocelot laughs! I have no idea what you mean. Is this something commonly known? Well, I love to learn, so educate me, please!
(7) "For Booth, I decided on Aries." I laugh again. I am helpless re your knowledge. And you probably know what a kitchen is for, too! Um... I know how to restrain a cat. Well, we all have different talents.
(8) "When the owner found out (1) she was pregnant, (2) it was with a stray, and (3) the stray wasn't even another Doberman, he threw her out into the cold." I repeat what I said above: The fantasy world is gonna rock when you start publishing.
Wait, hang fire! There was a crash and my cat is squealing -- Fiona, back soon
I was scared! I'd let my cats out, and Mischka has already been hit by a car. (Many years ago.) But in this case, there was no calamity.
I'm still shaken a bit. Okay, let's go to Rottman, all right? And Neco. I already like Neco. Poor Neco, he's gonna be a bit of a bastard, isn't he? But he's really interesting to me. I mean, he seems like the kind of git who would learn lots of words and who could intimidate folks no matter where he travels. Well, er, of course you know him better than I do.
Ocelot, not Fiona. Should we erase that?
Rottman: I guess I was still shaken, but I GET it now. Rottweiler and Doberman: scary! Okay, Brambleberry, do you have a drawing of what that looks like? I know both dogs, but I don't KNOW dogs, if you see what I mean: I don't know cross-breeds. I can talk cats all day long; obviously, you know dogs much better.
Excuse me for pausing again; nothing important. OcelotHod (talk) 14:04, 10 January 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
I moved this discussion because of how long the previous one was getting. Prepare for long reply of death:
(1) Feel free to ask as many questions as you want.
(2) I'll be sure to sign several in advance for you, and I'll make sure to include the cats. As for the short fiction, I don't consider mine to be nearly on par with my longer fiction. I worked all I had into a short story for a contest, and now I'm sort of worn out from that.
(3) Felan is a Celtic name with the meaning "small wolf". Even though Tate is on the larger side, Ysengrimus is small for his age and gender, which is how he was given his human name. Nobody got to choose their human name; it was assigned to them, as well as what happened to any deceased family members (in fable world, murdered; in human world, cancer) and their life so that people weren't just like, "Why are there hundreds of new people in our city with names like Ysengrimus and Br'er Rabbit?"
(4) In the Reynard Cycle, Reynard was always portrayed as the valiant protagonist and Ysengrimus as wicked. I had read quite a bit about the cycle (not to mention, it was a goldmine for animal characters; chief of police is none other than the lion Noble) and grew to pity the poor wolf. When I was deciding on the name, I was given a variety of spellings and was drawn to the "Ysengrimus". I preferred the "y" over the "i" at the beginning and the "m" over the "n" at the end to give the word grim, and the "us" seemed very appealing to me. With the human names, I did quite a bit of looking up to give name hints, such as the aformentioned Felan (who was almost named Rudolph before I remembered that their surname was Randolph) or William the billy goat gruff. Br'er Rabbit (who's actually a female; she was given the "br'er" prefix because the others she associated with refused to accept that a girl was as clever as they) got the first name "Hazel" in a shout-out to Watership Down.
(5) The Wolf, Tate, who just also happens to be a female (as someone sick of the urban Big Bad Wolf cliche of a hairy middle-aged man who has a fascination with young girls in red hoodies, I wanted to do everything I could to distance myself from that), is actually very close friends with Reynard, and Felan is none pleased with it. In the fable world that everyone comes from, Tate and Felan's parents Hati (father) and Asena (mother) were framed for killing three pigs and seven goats (sound familiar?) and were killed by a canid in a mask to protect his identity. Tate was, at the time, old enough to know that Reynard was out travelling at the time and couldn't have been in the mask, but Felan was too young at the time to know everything that was happening around him and associated it with the fox.
(6) Due to my fascination with the musical Assassins, I did a lot of work with presidential assassins. Every single photograph that I saw of the actor-turned-killer showed him with these thick black curls, and all I could think of was a ram, which alsoi has thick black curls. Well, not always black, but you get the idea.
(7) Ah yes, poor Neco had more than his fair share of strife for one life. He certainly knows more than the average dog and is more than a little intimidating; some of the lower-ranking members of Munio won't leave, afraid of running into him hunting later and having to face him again.
(8) Being a cat person and someone who would reject taking an animal outside at two o'clock in the morning when it was raining, I didn't used to know quite a bit about dogs until I thought of doing a pack animal book where I got to show off breed traits. I didn't want cats because it would be compared to Warriors, but now there's Survivors, which does the same breed thing. However, I doubt Survivors is going to include a psychopathic bastard Rotterman (my mistake, it's "Rotterman" and not "Rottman") who has incidentally ended up killing his mother because of a law he enforced. That seems just a tad too dark even for that series.
(9) While I don't have any photographs myself of the breed, there are a few pictures here, which is where I get most reference photos of crossbreesd. As you can see, the Rotterman has more of the shape of a Doberman and is not as bulky as the Rottweiler, but its face is thicker than the Doberman's. Pitweilers like Iuvo can also be found here, but they're not crippled like he.
Prepare for long reply of death: Just one more example of why I respect and love you, Brambleberry: a jokingly poisonous sense of humor will one day find you selling your stories to Hollywood. Ocelot said it here first.
Brambleberry, these ideas of yours are SO terrific. I'm not going to push you into publishing before you're ready, but I'd like to visit them again, so:
(3) You wrote, Felan is a Celtic name with the meaning "small wolf". Which I should have known, shame on me. I was showing off a couple of days ago by speaking (probably poorly) Welsh with a Welshman, but there's always something new to learn, and I am grateful for this - by which I mean, that after you've published, I'll feel free to write articles about your fiction, with appropriate homage to you.
"Ysengrimus is small for his age and gender, which is how he was given his human name. Nobody got to choose their human name; it was assigned to them" - And I don't believe I've ever seen this done before. I'm thinking hard. Well, not getting into ugly messes such as "Animal Farm," and overlooking Charlotte the Spider declaring Wilbur "Some Pig," I can't think of any story beyond "Black Beauty" in which the animal was stuck with a name not chosen by its parent. Which is perfect: If some lord outside your own species gets to name you, then you have been given slave status from the beginning. - Do I understand this correctly? Because the politics of your story fascinate me. (Set me straight if I've understood. Not often, but sometimes, I do try to "map" fiction onto what's currently happening in politics.)
(4) "the cycle (not to mention, it was a goldmine for animal characters" = Oh, geez. If there really were a literal goldmine for them... I just got sad and enthused at the same time. Okay, this is just two writers playing off of each others' ideas. Don't worry about theft.
"... and grew to pity the poor wolf. When I was deciding on the name, I was given a variety of spellings and was drawn to the "Ysengrimus". I preferred the "y" over the "i" at the beginning and the "m" over the "n" at the end to give the word grim, and the "us" seemed very appealing to me."
And you're right. I LOVE the name. George R.R. Martin will be kicking himself for not thinking of it. (Although, having recently tried to re-read "Game of Thrones", I realized I admired it a lot less than when I read it a decade ago. Hey, I have the first three of Martin's books, in mint condition, and I need to clean hundreds of books out my home library. Do you want, or do you know someone who would want, free copies of these books? Because I'll mail them, no charge and free shipping.)
"With the human names, I did quite a bit of looking up to give name hints... William the billy goat gruff. Br'er Rabbit (who's actually a female; she was given the "br'er" prefix because the others she associated with refused to accept that a girl was as clever as they) got the first name "Hazel" in a shout-out to Watership Down."
Yay, then, for WD! My favorite book, always. Yet, having owned goats in my past, I am longing more and more to read your stories! And I love the logic with "Br'er" - it's almost like Spike the Vampire, being tied up by Xander, giving him the two-finger salute.
(5) The Wolf, Tate, who just also happens to be a female (as someone sick of the urban Big Bad Wolf cliche of a hairy middle-aged man who has a fascination with young girls in red hoodies, I wanted to do everything I could to distance myself from that), is actually very close friends with Reynard, and Felan is none pleased with it.
This society is really fascinating.
I thought of Tate as female at once because of the movie "Little Man Tate (1991)" with Jodie Foster, only I thought of Jodie Foster as Tate. Brambleberry, what you've been putting together is so brilliant. (Well, of course, you probably thought of yourself. Why not?)
Felan was too young at the time to know everything that was happening around him and associated it with the fox. - Again, this is perfect. You do have a great grasp of politics, and how the physicality of animal bodies and brains would give them different abilities in power and play. And assassination.
(6) "Due to my fascination with the musical Assassins, ... all I could think of was a ram, which alsoi has thick black curls."
Yes, I get that. There was a scary ram in the great children's book "The Cat, The Horse, and The Miracle" (by Giggy Lezra). That was a best-selling book, so by all means take advantage of the fact that your readers might have a built-in disposition not to trust rams.
(7) "Ah yes, poor Neco had more than his fair share of strife for one life. He certainly knows more than the average dog and is more than a little intimidating; some of the lower-ranking members of Munio won't leave, afraid of running into him hunting later and having to face him again."
Brambleberry, this is so perfect: you know how to make him sympathetic, and you also know you're going to run him through hell. Many writers never understand that, you know? We have to create likeable people and then make them suffer, and sometimes make them make others suffer. I'm glad you have a tough stomach, so that you can make Neco run through his, what, Karma cycle. Well, maybe that's silly to say.
(8) "... However, I doubt Survivors is going to include a psychopathic bastard Rotterman ... who has incidentally ended up killing his mother because of a law he enforced. That seems just a tad too dark even for that series."
And I think that if you put Rotterman front and foremost, you're most likely to sell your work to Hollywood. I don't say that happily, but pragmatically. Plus, Bramble, you know what we all know: villains have to be scary, and they should be scarier than what we've seen before.
Back shortly. I've really enjoyed visiting your world! OcelotHod (talk) 16:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
Sorry, my computer is acting badly again. I'm going to restart it... OcelotHod (talk) 19:09, 20 February 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
Just a basic description of the land. There are three main "worlds": Earth, usually called "Terra" before everyone was moved; the Aether, where there is a complex society of mythical creatures and sentient animals; and Nyx, the primordial darkness that separates them. Nyx is filled with strange things made impossibly. When the group of tricksters decided to move creatures from the Aether to Terra, they could not have succeeded if it were not for an outside force who took this opportunity to carry out her dirty work, assigning them names and lives.
I have the first Game of Thrones book, which I've been meaning to get around to reading, but I doubt I will.
I personally don't think of Jodie Foster as a Tate. Tate is much, much taller and tanner. I haven't given much thought, actually, to what actors they might look like (except for Ryan the Puss in Boots, who I see as Hadley Fraser ca. 2011 as Raoul).
Johnny Booth plays a very minor part in the novel. Tate discovers that all four successful assassins of the President of the United States are Turners (a fancy name for a shapeshifter from the Aether) who came of their own free will to Terra. She tries to look for anything they might have had in common and discovers that they were all in a guild of tricksters.
To me, Neco's mother Pecus requires a tougher stomach. Was a content pet, fell in love with Luscus, and then had to keep her pups alive over the winter. She saw two of them die to the cold, two to the fangs of loners who she had rejected, and eventually had to give up the last. She had no hunting knowledge and had to forage. After more than her fair share of physical problems, she was killed at the hands of a son who couldn't recognize her.
One thing I forgot to mention about Neco was that he tried to kill his half-brother too. When Pervellere announced that she was having a litter of Luscus's pups, he became jealous of the new attention, so when they were first born he killed them all but Iuvo, who scratched him across the nose. Neco yipped in surprise and called attention to the situation.
You said that you wanted to work on a page for him, so our writing talk can stay above and our WP-talk can stay here.
Thank you! As you know, my old computer died, so I can't even find where I published my essay on Kenrick. It was probably with Salem Press, and I've been wanting to phone them, anyway, to ask about a friend who worked there.
I'll do that, this week.
I added much of what I know about Kenrick (certainly not all) to the IMDb page about him, but I suspect that we're not allowed to use IMDb as a source.
22:37, 5 March 2013 (UTC)OcelotHod (talk)Or, I think I mean: not allowed to use IMDb for biographical info; it MUST be okay for film info. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
And when I do find my essay, which might well be the ONLY essay published in a reputable source, about Kenrick, would I even be allowed to quote it, since I wrote it? I want to abide by the WP rules.
I've been so frustrated by not having Internet connectivity, so I'm going to save this right away. Hope to be back very soon. And I hope you're well, and happy, and doing great things! Well, you're doing great things by helping me. I really hope to be back without problems, very soon!
OcelotHod (talk) 22:37, 5 March 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
As you mentioned, you're allowed to use IMDb for basic film info like director, producer, writer, cinematographer, running time, release dates, etc. As for biographical info, it is usually only okay for a chart of filmography. Due to the fact that you wrote it, it may become a conflict of interest if you try to add your essay. I could add it for you if you so wish, once you find it.
Hey, missed you lots, need to hurry because for the past 2 weeks my connection keeps going in and out, mostly out. Don't give up on me! Will write this quickly while it looks as though I'm "on".
== Brambleberry, my favorite Tutor! If you've given up and moved on to someone else, I won't blame you. I've been out of touch for a horribly long time. (As the old joke goes: "It's not you! It's me!")
But I am now working on a WP page for the author/filmmaker "Tim Sullivan" and I would like to get your help, especially, unless you're now working with someone else.
I thought that the thing to do is to dump my information into my Sandbox, and this will be the first time I'm using it, so I'm going to see whether I can construct or just, loike, mess things up there.
Can you advise me every step of the way?
Please do some hand-holding here, if you will.
Tell me what seems obvious to you, but which might be invisible to me.
If I start using my Sandbox, can you see in there, and advise me? Or should I use the box to structure my text, and then add the info to our classroom? These are the things I need to know.
I appreciate your patience and your wisdom SO MUCH, Brambleberry! I must be the worst student you've ever had.
(Though it wasn't for lack of me trying, mind ya! It was just frustrating loss of computer connection.)
(And I shouldn't say this, because I'm not sure that I can make it happen... but I have an idea for a "Thank You!!" present once we've finished this Sullivan project. I'm sure you'll like it, because you like animals, too. And, no, it's not a stuffed animal. It's from Mother Nature: a real find, and I wouldn't part with it for anyone but you.) OcelotHod (talk) 22:56, 13 April 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
I can see your sandbox, as it and everything else in your user space is public. And don't worry, you're not only not the worst adoptee I've ever had (I just dropped the worst, who didn't seem to understand that she needs to ask questions), and I can work on a few adoptees at once.
Hi again! How are you? After several weeks of feeling pretty lousy, and mostly staying in bed reading, I've written up something totally different: An article about a novel by Dick Francis called "High Stakes," which I was re-reading. I wrote it with a cat in my lap and am now typing it. Yes, I entirely do intend to get back to every other idea I've mentioned, and have very good hopes of doing so in May or June, because my new doctor tells me he's got meds that are going to make me feel like a happy normal healthy person again. Yay!
You wrote, "...everything else in your user space is public." So, other folks read here? That never occurred to me; I thought my ignorance was confined to you. Whoops! But I don't care. I don't have the need to always be right or be brilliant. That I sometimes am is enough.
But in the meantime, where do I show my "High Stakes" article to you? Before simply sending it to the general mass of editorship, I mean.
And, Brambleberry, I'm very glad I'm not your worst pupil. I was pretty certain I must be. Those of us who live with pain will take every kind word we can get, I promise you.
My birthday is on April 21, and in the hobbits' manner, I'd be happy to send you this present that I talked about. But perhaps I should at least ask whether you'd LIKE it, before I send it. It's a small mammal fossil skull. If that repels you, then I'll think of something else. I'm just so grateful for your patience with me! More soon... OcelotHod (talk) 08:05, 19 April 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
Oh, and BIG QUESTION, I guess. Since I have about 800 or more books, am I allowed to scan the titles of any of them into Wiki Commons? Cover art, cover jackets. I can certainly upload photos of Tim Sullivan himself, which I've taken, but it would be nice to know... in general... whether cover art of books falls into generally allowed, or whether copyright pertains. There seems to be a general mix all over WP. I can certainly upload around a hundred photos of friends who are writers (photos taken by me) which I'll happily donate to the Commons. So I just need to learn the rules! Thanks, again!
Well, everything in your userspace may be public, but most people wouldn't want to check out someone else's sandbox. As for where you show the article to me, you can make another sandbox at, say User:OcelotHod/High Stakes so that I can look at it. To clean up afterwards, when you put it in article space, you can tag it with a speedy deletion tag so that it gets deleted. I'm not repelled by the gift, but I'd rather not accept gifts from people I don't know in public.
And when it comes to the Commons question, that falls under Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale, as most book covers are not free-use.
June 13...
Brambleberry! I'm back, at least briefly, but I'm having what I call a "good" pain day, which means that I woke up, felt no pain, and went straight to WP to edit the last book I'd read. (Christopher Priest's early collection.)
I still have pages of notes on every other topic we've discussed. I really hate to bore you by talking about pain, so I won't. But I have probably about 50 hand-written pages, on various subjects, that I haven't gotten to type up yet ... for your approval. (As Rod Serling would say.)
And I don't know your schedule. Around Miami, a lot of kids are spilling out onto the streets and then into the bars, which I assume means that semester is over. But you have this whole other world going on, so I don't judge you simply because I observe them.
The last project I wanted to send you was Dick Francis's "High Stakes," and was stymied when I learned that every time one searches for that name and that title, the phrase "high stakes" shows up in EVERY review of DF's books! So I pushed it to the side for a while, and then worked on his next novel, "Hot Money," and I think I'm ready to send that one to you.
In my obsessive way, I keep collecting information on such topics as "Big Dumb Object" and "Conceptual Breakthrough." We talked about these ages ago.
Brambleberry, I am willing to spend months researching, but I have always felt a guilt, a sense of time-is-running-out, with you, simply because I know you have other students.
So, please, either tell me that you'll wait forever, or that you'll wait if I can get some articles to you in the next [time period of your choice], or, if you prefer, I can clear your table by saying that I think there's someone else who's willing to be my tutor.
NOT SAYING that I want him! But if it would allow you a bit of freedom, I'll consider it. I don't want you to say yes, because I've loved our chats!
Anyway, I'd rather stay with you for 2 to 4 more weeks if that's okay, and maybe by that time I'll have found out that my new friend is not such a great friend.
So, in the next week, may I send you a brand new article? I think I mentioned it before. It's about a science fiction writer, Timothy Robert Sullivan, whose work I know pretty well. As in, I've written critical articles about his work. Bramble, may I send it to you by, say, the weekend or the following week? No later than, say, the 21st, which gives me lots of time to chase down every last book review and commentary and TV appearance, and which allows you to say, "You know, Ocelot, I'm getting swamped with these other tutors."
Will you consider it, then, please?
I can't just say a quick goodbye, because I've got the attachment of every student to a tutor.
Especially tutors who provide their very own ocelots. I will never forget that, you know!
Hugs from stormy Miami,
OcelotHod
No worries when it comes to finding another adopter! My other adoptees with the exception of 2 (one and two halves, really) are all MIA, so it's not really a big deal. Feel free to send me any article you make.
I myself have been feeling pain, specifically in my shoulders and wrists. The wrist pains are old from landing awkwardly, but the shoulder ones are all new. As for the rain, I'll be praying! We in Wisconsin got about half an hour of flash flooding, but that was it.
Brambleberry! How are you, little medicine cat? It must be months since we've talked, and I hope that you are free of pain by now. Not to mention free of bad weather. (Do tell me what it's like up there in November.) I'm sorry to say that I've been so disabled by pain that I've rarely come to my computer for several weeks. But I do want to use my sandbox again, so I need your help ... I don't know how to clear the Sullivan TITLE from my sandbox. I'd like to submit a couple more articles to you, but obviously they'll need different titles. I am in no rush, so answer whenever it's convenient, okay? ... I think about you more often than you'd expect, maybe, because I miss our conversations. Except for conversations and ideas, my life is mostly devoted to focusing on my pain, which is boring, and while I keep waiting for the doctors to help me, I'm eager for distraction. I'm fond of you and I hope you're doing well. Please do write when you can; I'll have more questions. Thanks! OcelotHod (talk) 09:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC) OcelotHod
My wrist and shoulder pains are gone, but I've got knee pain now from too many stairs. Also from the fact that it snowed in Wisconsin starting on November 17. I have noticed the issue with Tim Sullivan: it is in article space now, and your sandbox is a redirect to it! I have fixed this. This is from a user who moved it to AfC and a bot who moved the AfC redirect to article space. It's kind of hard to explain this, but look here and you might have a better idea.
