Template talk:Theravada Buddhism

Creation

This template was co-created with the irreplaceable User:Sacca. The first serious discussion regarding this template can be found at User_talk:Sacca#Template:Theravada.3F. In addition to his knowledge-based expertise, User:Sacca provided the powerful image that currently crowns this template. Larry_Rosenfeld (talk) 09:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I like the whole idea behind the template: the template is based on the pillars of Asoka. The colors, the lion and the headings all refer to this, nice.Greetings, Sacca 23:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Visuddhimagga removal

Also I will remove the Visuddhimagga. I think that it's not the most important text: I think the Mahasatipatthana Sutta would qualify for that, or the Dhammacakkapavattanasutta or anapanasatisutta. I think it's a bit misleading to put Visuddhimagga 'outside of the box' while these other (more important?) texts are not. Greetings, Sacca 23:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be hard to establish a consensus on what is the most important text. The point about the Visuddhimagga is that it's generally regarded as the standard summary of the teaching. given that the Canon is about 20 times as long & not all translated, that's worth considering. Peter jackson 15:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Visuddhimagga is definitely one of the most influential texts in Theravada Buddhism, which traces itself back to the Mahavihara tradition of Sri Lanka. Here for example, we have Bhikkhu Nanamoli's words on the subject from his introduction to the Visuddhimagga:"As the principal non-canonical authority of the Theraváda, it forms the hub of a complete and coherent method of exegesis of the Tipitaka." Sacca's opinion is here, quite wrong. I'm putting the VM back. Javierfv1212 (talk)

more info

What about a 'recent publications' tag? These books which are newly written have a lot of influence on the current tradition. It could link to a list of books by some important teachers, divided by country (thai, sri lanka, usa, etc). Greetings, Sacca 04:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be interested in discussing this more.

Could you perhaps list here a few of the books you're thinking about? For instance, honestly and earnestly, I can't think of any book published in the USA ever that would merit inclusion in this template if the Visuddhimagga itself is subsumed under "Commentaries." Perhaps we could create a separate article (or subsection of an existing article) where such books could be listed and then we could insert in the "Text" section a link to something like "Recent Books"?

Alternatively, if you're interested in highlighting current traditions (such as the Thai Forest tradition) independent of books, I'd be open to finding a way to create a new section for such.

Just some thoughts, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies, Sacca. I realize that you were initially proposing what I had "countered" with in my second paragraph above. Clearly, had I read what you wrote more clearly, I would have simply agreed that it was a good idea.... Obviously, I've been lacking sleep and meditation :-( Please forgive my UNCLEAR comprehension (asampajanna? -- or is that clear NON-comprehension??). So, yes, make a list and include a link here. Good idea! Best wishes, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 22:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nepal???

Nepal was recently added to this template. Why? According to the WP article on Nepal and the CIA World Fact Book[1], Nepal is a Hindu state (the "only official Hindu state in the world" according to the latter source) with only a 10.7% of the population identified as Buddhist -- many of whom, I suspect, practice Tibetan Buddhism, not Theravada Buddhism. A Google search seems to indicate that some claim a Theravada heritage in Nepal because the Buddha was born in Lumbini and may have taught some in Nepal; but, such teachings were not truly "Theravadin" but, if to be labeled, "early ('pre-sectarian'?) Buddhist." Furthermore, as indicated in the text associated with this template: "The main article and set of related citations for this template's content is Theravada"; the Theravada articles does not even mention Nepal. So by what reasonable, fair criterion is Nepal included (and, even more inscrutable, put before Sri Lanka, at the head of the list)? Thanks, 24.136.229.74 (talk) 20:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If no one responds to the above concerns and related information, I plan to remove Nepal from this list in the next day or two. If someone feels that my doing so would be mistaken, please express your views here. (And, just to avoid any appearance of deception, the above IP address was one I used -- that is, I'm not a second person expressing this concern but am still the first.) Thanks, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 05:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's been over a week and no one's attempted to defend the inclusion of Nepal in (at the top) of the list of Theravada Buddhist countries.

FWIW, I reviewed today Richard H. Robinson and Willard L. Johnson's The Buddhist Religion (1982 ed.) and they contextualize the small Buddhist population within this Hindu state within Tibetan Buddhism (ch. 9, pp. 133-6). In terms of early history, of course, the Buddha was born and at times traveled to what is now Nepal; in the 3rd c. BCE, Ashoka visited the area and reputedly his daughter (presumably one of at least two?!) married a Nepalese businessman; in the 4th c. CE, Vasubandhu visited; but, according to Robinson & Johnson, "we know almost nothing of [Buddhism's] history [in Nepal] before the seventh century" (p. 133). Nothing is indicated about any Theravadin presence or affiliation.

So, given the above, after waiting fruitlessly more than a week for reliable counter-information, I'm reverting the addition of Nepal to this list today. With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 16:54, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is an article describing the existence of Theravada before 19th century in Nepal. There are plenty of materials related to theravada in Nepal in 20th century. Anyone can do a simple google search of "Thervada Nepal" to find information about thervada in Nepal. There are a lot of Viharas scattered all over Nepal. If someone is still skeptic, I can upload photographs of Nepalese Viharas. I am putting Nepal in the template again. Thank you.--Eukesh (talk) 14:15, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Theravada died out in Nepal (there probabaly wasn't any theravada there anyway - more likely some of the other early buddhist schools), even though some laygroups were still Buddhist, and held some theravada-like festivals (with temporary samanera ordination). No Theravada monks were present in Nepal. With the arrival of SE-asian/Sri Lankan Theravada, they became theravada, but are still keeping their local traditions, too. That included their own temples where no monks are resident, Buddhist cultural lay centers. Nepalese Theravada viharas are typically SriLankan/Thai/Burmese affiliated. With Thai and sri lankan monks, off course. Some are heavily dependent on thai or sri lankan tourists, who come to Kathmandu from India on sightseeing tours. Some nepalese monks teach goenka meditation. It is all very recent. Those people in Nepal were not Mahayana, but not Theravada either. I strongly support deleting mention of Nepal. Greetings, Sacca 03:58, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility

I made a more accessible and standards-compliant version of this template. However, it's too wide. Can someone fix that, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done

I fussed with it some; it needed an explicit width and some other de-linting. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 23:01, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ashokan lion

As pretty as the image in the top of the template is, it does not properly represent Theravada Buddhism. The Ashokan lion has nothing to do with Theravada, Ashoka promoted Buddhism in general, and this lion is more likely to be associated by others with Indian nationalism, or perhaps Dalit Buddhism (which also uses the Ashokan dharmacakra). Indeed one of these Ashokan lions is used as the Emblem of India. The Buddha was sometimes represented as a lion, this is true, but this is something which all Buddhist schools share. Theravada Buddhism has no single unified symbol, in Sri Lanka the Buddhist flag is popular and in Thailand they use a flag with a dhammacakka. For example, if one searches for Theravada Buddhist books on amazon, there is nothing with a lion on the cover, but many books with an image of a seated Buddha and also some dharmacakras. So if anything is to represent Theravada, it would be a Buddha image or a Dharma wheel. Now since the Dharma wheel is already widely used on wikipedia and it is on the generic Buddhism template, I propose this image which is an ancient Sri Lankan (the historical source of Theravadan Buddhism) statue of Buddha in seated meditation. This image is aesthetically pleasing and it is also used in the cover to Analayo's book on the Satipatthana sutta. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gal_Viharaya_02.jpg

I have taken the liberty to change it, now if anyone has a reasonable argument as to why the Ashokan lion pillar should be THE symbol to represent Theravada Buddhism, please feel free to post on my talk page. Javierfv1212 (talk)

Without weighing in on the importance of the previous image, this one is, I agree, very striking, and is from Gal Vihara. Ogress _smash! 03:23, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To further my argument, if you watch the beginning of this well known BBC documentary on Theravada Buddhism, you'll actually hear Balangoda Ananda Maitreya Thero say that this statue is the "doctrine (dharma) symbolized." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3r202etWLE