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Why not separate All-Stars winners with the winners every regular season?

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Hello!

I clearly understand the reason behind separating both the regular and the All-Stars seasons, as they are separate shows produced and aired by World of Wonder and Logo/VH1 respectively. If that is the case, why don't we separate the winners from the regular and All-Stars seasons as well? This is to clearly distinguish the winners from the regular and All-Stars seasons in the same way as we see both regular and All-Stars seasons. In addition, even non-RPDR fans who choose to navigate the infobox will find out at a glance who won each season respectively. What do you think?

k_cms (talk) 12:41, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary addition of information in the navbox

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It is unnecessary to add each contestant's Wikipedia linked to their name in the navbox because it can get overtly busy and become difficult to navigate with. That's why the list of contestants' is linked in the navbox in the first place. k_cms (talk) 16:43, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is absolutely common practice to include non-celebrity contestants in navboxes for reality tv series. See Template:Big Brother in the United States or all of the other navboxes included at Category:Reality television series navigational boxes. It also comes up at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 August 11#Template:Celebrity Big Brother. --woodensuperman 16:59, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, there is no room for each and every drag queen, or "act," in the navbox as it will over-proliferate it. k_cms (talk) 17:05, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree, especially with the ability to collapse sub-boxes See Template:Scoutorg BSA for example.Naraht (talk) 17:23, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely agree, in fact it shouldn't be up for discussion. The other contestants do not hold enough notability within the show to be included in the box. Adding all the contestants really ruins the purpose of what this box is supposed to be used for along with making it look more confusing than it needs to be. Dallasansel (talk) 02:19, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
R'n'B,Woodensuperman,k_cms,Ratherbe2000,R'n'B Good to see you finally here. A few points, 1) physical"size" can easily be handled through a collapsible box. 2) A queen like Raven (drag queen) doesn't count as notable enough in the show? 3) "Supposed to be used for? What Policy are you pointing to? 4) And for the closest comparison, as I indicated below, the template is simpler than the one for {{The Bachelor}}. Naraht (talk) 09:43, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is a place for facts, not opinion. Just because you like Raven (drag queen) does not mean she should be included in the box. She did not win a season or Miss C. Dallasansel (talk) 13:53, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As a runner up in both a season and an all-star season she has been in far more episodes than most of the Miss C. or even some of the season winners.Naraht (talk) 14:04, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The argument made in previous discussions is that the participants are notable because of their involvement in the show. For the most part, they were not "celebrities" before their appearance, therefore they belong in this navbox (similar to how categorization uses WP:DEFINING). --woodensuperman 16:34, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument that "The other contestants do not hold enough notability within the show" holds no water. Most of the participants are only notable for being in the show. --woodensuperman 08:15, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The argument that there is "no room" is BS. This is a relatively compact navbox. And as you can see from the discussion I linked above, there is some consensus that non-celebrity participants for reality shows do belong in navboxes, as the reality show is what they are primarily known for to the wider world. Per WP:PERFNAV, we don't include hosts, judges, celebrity contestants, etc., as these people are known for many other things. Better comparisons are navboxes for other "talent" shows, like {{America's Next Top Model}}, {{The Voice (U.S.)}}, etc. --woodensuperman 09:52, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Always best to make it hard to navigate for our readers because for some reason the film project hates big boxes. Should be reorganization with readers in-mind.--Moxy (talk) 12:07, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep the contestants, per woodensuperman's comments. The inclusion of non-winning contestants of a reality show (and Ru the day that reality shows began to indoctrinate society that all the world is a mistrusting battleground) have been discussed before. I saw this discussion mentioned, and first read the discussion without looking at the template which I then expected to find as a very large template. What I found is that the template is not large at all, and it is well-arranged and understandable. I guess I'm not understanding what the problem is except for the notability of the non-winning contestants, which has been addressed by woodensuperman above. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:58, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Would the users who are insisting on continually removing these entries note that prior consensus for navboxes of this type is to include non-celebrity participants, per the examples I've listed above, and consensus in this discussion is also to include. Rather than continually revert, I would suggest that you continue to discuss. Other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT, neither of you have posited a good reason for excluding these. Note that this content already existed as it was included on another navbox, a merge was necessary as we don't need two navboxes - a single navbox is of an easily manageable size. --woodensuperman 08:09, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • we should definitely keep the list of other contestants. as stated above, they are frequently primarily known for appearing on the show, so are definitely a core part of the show. Frietjes (talk) 13:13, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Monet and Trinity

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How should we display the shared win by Monet X Change and Trinity Taylor? I had included both as one bullet with a plus sign, but User:Dominikcapuan changed this to a bullet in between but both names in a set a parentheses. I think the parentheses are confusing, but maybe others find the plus sign confusing. My goal was to show they both one together, rather than having separate bullet, because readers might be confused why there are 5 names listed when there have only been 4 seasons. Thoughts? ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:09, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd *personally* use a slash or a slash and parentheses as better than a plus, but a plus is better than nothing different.Naraht (talk) 16:19, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Naraht, My concerns with a slash is some people could interpret "Monet / Trinity" as the same person with two names? Maybe that's not something I should worry about. I prefer the slash over the parentheses. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:22, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Another Believer Looking at my symbols on my keyboard, I now would prefer +. It most clearly indicates both.Naraht (talk) 16:24, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Naraht, Cool, let's see if others weigh in soon, otherwise I might switch back to the plus sign since 2 editors now prefer this over the parentheses. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:25, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Another Believer Actually, my first preference is + and in parentheses, and second is +. But I think we are all agreed, *something* is better than just the dot and no parens.Naraht (talk) 16:30, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Naraht, Ok. I've changed the bullet to a plus sign for now, which is a mix of all three of our preferences. Hopefully this is a good compromise for now, until other editors weigh in. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:08, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • From a logical perspective, I think the plus sign without parentheses makes the most sense. Because of both the intrinsic meaning of a plus sign and the fact that it differs from the dot that separates all other entries, it clearly indicates that the two won together. Adding parentheses is confusing, since they are used elsewhere in this template to indicate that their contents are related to a series name explicitly stated outside the parentheses. There is no series name (nor any other parent category, for that matter) before these, which makes this usage inconsistent. Also, unlike a plus sign, parentheses do not inherently imply anything about "together" or "simultaneously" or "in conjunction".
That said, I am also fine with going back to the simple dot between the two names, since one could argue that that section of the template merely contains people who fall under the category of "Winner of RuPaul's Drag Race". That is true of both Monét and Trinity regardless of whether we include the additional info that they won together. Armadillopteryxtalk 19:55, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We're Here

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Unresolved

Does We're Here belong in this template? I think somewhere there was a discussion about removing Dragnificent! I think these shows should be treated the same. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:46, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we could use the same criteria we discussed for whether each article belongs under the umbrella of the WikiProject (i.e. anything covered by the WikiProject goes here, otherwise no)? Armadillopteryxtalk 22:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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because most articles in the "related" section actually fall in the same category: articles about other TV shows, I suggest: create between "international" and "events" a new section "Other Shows", maybe with two subsections "official spin-offs" and "related shows" (which would be featuring DR queens without being RuPaul's. Official spin-offs would be the Holi-slay Spectacular special, Untucked, Vegas Revue, Drag U, Secret Celebrity; related shows with DR queens would be Dancing Queens, Dragnificient, We're Here. --Blobstar (talk) 12:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly additions from Drag U, unclear in which grouping.

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The Judges of Drag U aren't in the template: Lady Bunny and (for season 1) Frank Gaston Jr. . I could see them either being listed in the Judges or (personally preferred)being in the parenthesis after Drag U in the other where there episodes are. Comments?Naraht (talk) 17:37, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Both Judge and contestant

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We are getting to a fairly large number of queens who have been both contestants and judges (even if for version that haven't gone to air yet.)

  • Pangina Heals: Judge - Thailand, contestant: UK vs World
  • Jiggly Caliente: contestant RPDR, AS , Judge Philippines
  • Brooklyn Heights: contestant RPDR, Judge Canada
  • Nicky Doll: contestant RPDR, Judge France

Right now we seem to be dealing with it by including them in what they were in first (Pangina Heals in the Judge group, the others in the appropriate contestants, but I think it is worthwhile including them in both.Naraht (talk) 02:27, 15 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Naraht I believe this is resolved since there are now separate navboxes for various iterations of the show. The only thing to keep in mind is IF we separate out a navbox for All Stars then we will want to update Pangina's article (the others are covered by Template:RuPaul's Drag Race for now). ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:08, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Another Believer Not sure the AS navbox affects Pangina, she was never on AS, only Thailand and UK vs. Naraht (talk) 16:13, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, right. My bad! ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:21, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Judges and Crew

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Judges and crew should not be included in these navboxes, as per WP:PERFNAV entertainers and crew members should not be included. These are celebrities who are known for their careers outside of this franchise, so including them is WP:UNDUE. --woodensuperman 14:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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