Template talk:Infobox monument

This template was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

No consensus, 2020 March 22, see discussion.
Do not merge, 2020 March 22, see discussion.
Keep, 2018 April 13, see discussion.
Keep, 15 April 2013, see discussion.

Merge/replace with {{Infobox historic site}}

I started a conversation at Template talk:Infobox historic site#.7B.7BInfobox_monument.7D.7D about the two templates and looking forward for some feedback on a possible merge. Thanks --Codrin.B (talk) 22:04, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

An April 2013 discussion decided to keep the templates separate, I think this stems from the confusion of monument-meaning-memorial and monument in the "Wiki Loves Monuments", monumental-building, sense. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:12, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recent rewrite: feature lost

This infobox has recently been rewritten, and several parameters are no longer recognised: |map_cue= |map_text= |map_width= |lat= |long= |coord_region=. Regarding the last three, these were used to generate a {{coord}} with |display=inline,title, and that feature has been lost. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:06, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've just seen these two edits, which have added support for separate coordinate parameters |latitude=|latd=|latm=|lats=|latNS=|longitude=|longd=|longm=|longs=|longEW=|iso_region=. My immediate thought was "surely this was already present" - and indeed something very similar was, but was lost with this edit as described above. We may therefore have articles using parameters which are no longer supported. Should we restore the old parameters to the infobox, or hunt down and fix the articles using these parameters? --Redrose64 (talk) 19:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

we could do both. I noticed this was in the documentation, but missing in the template, and didn't really have the time to update the articles. Frietjes (talk) 20:00, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I added backwards compatibility for everything mentioned but |map_cue= |map_text=. will add tracking for those. Frietjes (talk) 20:05, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I cleared the tracking template transclusions and removed the tracking code. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Native Name

Good morning, I have a question about the meaning of this parameter: is native name a) the name of the landmark given by the people who built it or b) the current name in the language spoken today in that place?

Example: the native name of "Colosseum" is a) Colosseum (Latin) or b) Colosseo (Italian)?

Thanks, Alex2006 (talk) 08:49, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Very good question. For the naming of monuments erected in the ancient era, we need maybe an additional parameter as "original name" so that the parameter "native name" may point out to the name in current language and time. If agreed, I can add that parameter. --CeeGee 11:32, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo CeeGee, nice to see you here :-) This is the question which I asked you one week ago. I looked to a dozen templates, and by them the native name is today's name. Example: Galata tower, Gaklata Kulesi, NOT Torre di Cristo. For me, you can proceed and insert it. Should we ask someone else? Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 12:31, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You could enter both names, using {{Plainlist}}, but there is no need to enter the former, as it is the same as the current, English name; so just enter the Italian. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:42, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but this was only a simple example: I came here because of Hagia Sophia, where the original name is Ἁγία Σοφία (the greek version) and the current name is Ayasofia müzesi (Turkish). I would like to have a parameter added, otherwise there will always be lenghty discussions about which name comes first, which second, and so on (Hagia Sophia is here a typical example).Alex2006 (talk) 14:01, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Alex! It seems that I didn't understand your earlier question. Anyway, I'm gonna add that par now with proper description. Hopefully, it will help. Cheers. --CeeGee 13:56, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo CeeGee, you understood very well (see my post above), and go ahead! Alex2006 (talk) 14:01, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Anyway, CeeGee, we have a problem: how will the user distinguish the original name from the current one? Alex2006 (talk) 14:04, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See my example, below. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:16, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dual values may be entered using markup like:

<code>
{{Plainlist|
* {{lang|gr|Ἁγία Σοφία}}
* {{lang|tr|Ayasofia müzesi}}
}}
</code>

in which case, the |native_name_lang= parameter is not used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:16, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo Andy, thanks, but it is exactly the problem: Turkish and Greek Users fights again and again to put their name above the other. Moreover, with the list one does not understand which is the native name. What we should have is a fixed order with parameters, which avoids this kind of fights and brings clarity. Alex2006 (talk) 14:25, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done Pls, check if it's OK. --CeeGee 14:19, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks CeeGee, but how do we distinguish what is what? :-) Alex2006 (talk) 14:28, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The only way is to relocate the par original_name by taking it off the title and place it into the infobox body with parameter-title "Original name". Do you mean this would help? --CeeGee 14:48, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm reverting; this needs more though discussion. Also, what of there are English and non-English versions of an original name, different to the current name(s)? How are those cases handled in comparable infoboxes, such as those for buildings or settlements? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:02, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're over-thinking this. Firstly, we don't need to add template parameters just to avoid a local content dispute. Secondly, a non-English original name is a native name. (It might help to replace "native name" in your mind with "non-Englsh name".) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:14, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All this happens maybe due to lack of clear-cut rules for use of original (ancient)-name and (native (current)-names and their order in the infobox title as well as in the lead section. I'm not aware of them. It could be helpful, I guess. --CeeGee 15:19, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I welcome an extended discussion here. Andy, Andy Mabbett, about your explaination of native names: does this mean that if a monument like Hagia Sophia changed hands 3 times in its history, it will have 3 native names? This infobox is almost never used so, since as native name is almost always adopted the current local name, i.e. the name used in the country hosting the landmark now. Moreover, in the specialistic literature is often given relevance to the current local name. IMHO, what we need to do is to distinguish among the original name, which is one, the current name, which is - except for multilingual entitities like Belgium - one, and the other names used during the landmark history. Alex2006 (talk) 15:33, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No parameter "monument dismantled"; I need one!

Currently there is no parameter in this template where an editor can put the date of dismantling, destruction or removal of a monument. I think one is needed. As you might know the Statue of Lenin in Kharkiv and Vladimir Lenin monument, Kiev and hundreds of other communist monuments in Ukraine have also been dismantled. There are also former Stalin monuments and monuments to other dictators that have been dismantled. I think an extra parameter to indicate this would be a good extra feature for this template. I don't know how to add it.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:30, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:Yulia Romero, using |dismantled= should work now. Frietjes (talk) 22:31, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

New parameter "Restored"

I added the Restore parameter as many monuments, especially really old ones, under restorations every, perhaps, 50 years or so. With my limited scripting knowledge, I hope it works! Thx. Mercy11 (talk) 02:48, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK. So, it seems to work fine (tested it HERE) except there is too much space before and after the new parameter, and which I can't figure out why. Thx! Mercy11 (talk) 02:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Location parameter listed twice

The location parameter is listed twice: at the top under caption and way at the bottom. And if only the top one is filled in, it is ignored; no alert message given, just no location shown in the infobox. Can someone fix the duplication? Thanks, Leschnei (talk) 19:37, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Leschnei, can you provide an example? I am not seeing any errors. Frietjes (talk) 19:21, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Frietjes, I'm not sure which article(s) I was editing when I noticed this, so I copy/pasted the infobox monument template into a sandbox and copied some data from Pilgrim Monument. I put the location information into the first instance of 'location' in the infobox and left the second one blank. As you can see (here: User:Sandbox), the location does not show up in the resulting infobox. I hope that this isn't just a weirdness of my computer! Leschnei (talk) 19:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Leschnei, I see. the problem was in the blank template in the documentation having the same parameter listed twice. I have fixed this. Frietjes (talk) 21:13, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Frietjes, thank you! Leschnei (talk) 21:28, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New Parameter needed

A parameter depicting the tourist footfall (number of visiting tourists) (yearly preferably) should be added to the infobox template.Number of tourists visiting is an important info about the monument.Sanyam.wikime (talk) 18:14, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am adding the above mentioned parameter to the template as visitors_num and visitors_year, view doc for more details. For any concern regarding the same, leave a message here. --Sanyam.wikime (talk) 14:15, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

extra_label

The template supports an |extra= parm for an ad-hoc value at the bottom, but there is no |extra_label= field to label it. Any objection to my adding it? —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:29, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Seems reasonable. Plus side is that if it's not used the current view will show, so nothing existing will break. Primefac (talk) 14:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done I added the |extra_label= parm, documented it, and implemented it at Liberty Bell. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 08:05, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

AlanM1, well done. I don't suppose it would be reasonably doable to make it appear where you put it in the specific template instead of only at the bottom? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:56, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately that's not how templates work; we can only put info in the order it shows up. I do agree, it would make more sense to add it in further up the page (near the height etc) but that would require adding in a new param altogether. Primefac (talk) 12:27, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, it was worth asking. An improvement, nontheless. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:11, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is the template used a lot for things that have known/verifiable weight (mass)? I could add parms |weight= with alias |mass= below the |height= if there is no objection. (Other templates have separate SI and imperial units parms and do conversions automatically, but this one doesn't do that for the other dimensions, so it should probably be consistent and let the user use a {{Convert}} if they want to.) —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:48, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I randomly sampled about a half-dozen and they were mostly structures like Civil Rights Memorial, Offa's Dyke, and Hagia Sophia, which don't really merit a weight param. I know that we're "allowed" to have params that aren't in use on every page, but if it's only going to be valid on a few pages it's not really worth it. Primefac (talk) 13:14, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Primefac and Gråbergs Gråa Sång: A little creative searching (incomplete – I always forget the weird regex that Cirrus almost supports) suggests there would be sufficient use, I think. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 17:24, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough.

Done. Primefac (talk) 23:22, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]