Template talk:IPA/Archive 8

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Priority of fonts in CSS class

Could we place the fonts that do not handle diacritics placement lower in the CSS font priority? Fonts like Gentium or Chrysanthi Unicode do not have diacritics placement, so diacritics will not always be well placed, some centered, others not. Also could we put those that do and are hinted with a higer priority? Here's a proposed order:

1. Doulos SIL - best IPA support: diacritics placement, stacking and decent hinting
2. Charis SIL - same as quality as Doulos SIL
3. DejaVu Sans - Sans Serif font with diacritics placement, some stacking and good hinting
4. Gentium - good IPA support except for no diacritics placement, no stacking, good hinting
5. Code2000 - good IPA support, diacritics placement, stacking but no hinting
6. Chrysanthi Unicode - good IPA support but no diacritics placement and no hinting
7. Others

---moyogo 06:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I am using MSIE 6.0 on WIN XP and unfortunately Charis SIL does not show IPA diacritics correctly. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 23:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Tie-bar

Using IE6, in the phonetic transcription of Wrocław (regardless of whether this template or IPAudio is used), I see a "u" with a grave accent instead of what is supposed to be a "t" with a tie-bar. Is there anything I can do about this? It's been suggested I should download DejaVu fonts, but I haven't managed to get anywhere by doing that. (In fact, as I remember, the display was slightly less inaccurate before I installed DejaVu Sans etc.)--Kotniski (talk) 10:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, the best workaround I can find is to put a Unicode no-width space between the "t" and the tie-bar. I'm going to do that in the Wrocław article, and if that doesn't generate any complaints, will do the same in other similar situations I come across.--Kotniski (talk) 17:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

For symbols in non IPA transcriptions

Is there a template out there that also forces uncommon characters to display on Internet Explorer 6 or lower but without titling the tagged text "Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)"? For displaying characters other than in an IPA transcription (e.g. in a phonemic transcription such as /ṭūž/ ), where the "IPA" information would be misleading? Dan Pelleg (talk) 01:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Seems there's none, so I suppose I'll create one, if nobody minds. Dan Pelleg (talk) 22:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

{{IPA0}} and {{Unicode}} might work. kwami (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

List of fonts

font-family: "Chrysanthi Unicode", "Doulos SIL", Gentium, GentiumAlt, 
Code2000, "TITUS Cyberbit Basic", "DejaVu Sans", "Bitstream Cyberbit", 
"Arial Unicode MS", "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro", 
"Matrix Unicode";

Hi, the above is what MediaWiki:Monobook.css has, more or less.

I think we should propose a change. Charis SIL ought to be added, and readily available fonts should be moved to the front. Matrix Unicode isn't easily available, so it might as well be deleted.

font-family: "Doulos SIL", "Charis SIL", Gentium, GentiumAlt,
"DejaVu Sans", Code2000, "TITUS Cyberbit Basic", "Bitstream Cyberbit",
"Arial Unicode MS", "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro",
"Chrysanthi Unicode";

How does this look? --Kjoonlee 17:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't know about each specific font, but in principle better fonts should appear earlier in the list, and readily-available ones should be further back as fallback choices. —Michael Z. 2007-08-20 21:20 Z —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:20, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

• Doulos SIL, Charis SIL, Gentium, and DejaVu Sans are top-notch. Doulos SIL and Charis SIL are good all-round fonts. Gentium could have the positioning of the combining diacritic marks improved somewhat, and it lacks some stand-alone tone marks, but it's pretty comprehensive. (And we don't use stand-alone tone marks much at Wikipedia.) DejaVu Sans has weak positioning also, but it has very nice coverage. It's sans-serif as well. These are all readily available for download.
• I don't have enough experience with the others to comment about their merits. I know I dislike TITUS Cyberbit Basic's stress marks.
• Code2000 can be downloaded easily —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kjoonlee (talk • contribs) 19:46, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
• Arial Unicode MS comes with some versions of MS Office
• Lucida Sans Unicode comes with Windows XP
• Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro is for Mac OS X, but I don't know much about it
• Chrysanthi Unicode I've never used. --Kjoonlee 19:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Any comments?

font-family: "Doulos SIL", "Charis SIL", Gentium, "DejaVu Sans",
Code2000, "TITUS Cyberbit Basic", "Arial Unicode MS",
"Lucida Sans Unicode", "Chrysanthi Unicode";

I can't imagine someone having GentiumAlt without Gentium, so removed GentiumAlt. Bitstream Cyberbit isn't freely available anymore, so it was removed also. Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro is for Mac OS, so I doubt MSIE users (who are the only people who need this font list) will have it handy. If no suggestions are made, I'm going to request an update of MediaWiki:Monobook.css. --Kjoonlee 20:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

So, is that done? --Koryakov Yuri (talk) 09:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't, but I've just put up the request for change. --Kjoonlee 21:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Charis SIL should come before Doulos SIL. They cover the same range, & have the same OTF properties, but Charis is more recent and better designed typographically. It's not great, but Doulos is pretty bad. When Gentium is finished, that should come first. kwami (talk) 19:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Suggestions have now been made at MediaWiki talk:Common.css --Kjoonlee 21:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

And now they've been implemented. After deleting my cache, I can confirm Charis SIL works for me with IE6. --Kjoonlee 11:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)