Template talk:Harvard citations/archive 1

question

A feature which I would like to have is the following:

• text: This phenomenon was shown in the seminal oeuvre of Paul Example
• with seminal oeuvre linking to the reference: {{citation | first=Paul | last=Example | title=...}}

i.e. no parentheses around the name, no year, and wikilinking any word I'd like to point to the given reference (in the latter case something which internally looks like {{harvardxyz|Paul Example|seminal oeuvre}}.

If several references with this author are given, then a year specification could be shown, but otherwise I personally prefer not to see it.

Is this feasible right now? Thanks! Jakob.scholbach 20:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It would be rather a mess to fit this into the harvs template, but it is easy to do it directly without templates: just use [[#CITEREFExample1999|seminal oeuvre]].R.e.b. 21:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Nowadays, it's best to use [[#{{harvid|Example|1999}}|seminal oeuvre]]. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved

bug

(the first three nodes are copied from the other talk page)

There is a slight bug, namely sometimes the template produces an erroneous space between the author and the year. For example

{{harvard citations|txt=yes|first=W.V.O.|last=Quine|author1-link=Willard Van Orman Quine|year=1960|year2=1967}}

yields

W.V.O. Quine (1960, 1967)

note the two spaces (one too much) between Quine and the year. Can somebody with admin rights (or whatever is needed) fix this, please? It looks pretty odd. Thanks. Actually, also between 1960 and 1967 there is too much space. Jakob.scholbach (talk) 17:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Sure it's not your browser? Looks fine to me (single space between author and (year), and single space between (year1, year2). Aside from that, this template is {{harvard citation}}, and you're using {{harvard citations}} (plural). Might be quicker and better to take the comment over there, if it's still a problem. Carre (talk) 13:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, I will go there. Jakob.scholbach (talk) 09:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem persists. Actually, I'm now using a Firefox browser, and here the layout is also bad: between Quine and the first parenthesis there is no space. This is not a problem of the browser's rendering spaces etc. - the source code of the page does not have a space at the indicated spot. (Source code reads

<a href="/wiki/Willard_Van_Orman_Quine" title="Willard Van Orman Quine">W.V.O. Quine</a> (<a href="#CITEREFQuine1960" title="">1960</a>, <a href="#CITEREFQuine1967" title="">1967</a>)</cite>

I always thought (and still think) that the output of the PHP files should be browser-independent? What do others see? Jakob.scholbach (talk) 09:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a screen shot of what I see: Image:Citations.PNG - like I say, no real problem there. Odd. Carre (talk) 18:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, let's forget about it. Jakob.scholbach (talk) 12:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I also see this bug, using Firefox 2. For example, in Triangulated category, I placed the citation:

{{Harvard citations|last1 = Dold|last2 = Puppe|year = 1961|txt = yes}}

which rendered as:

Dold and Puppe (1961)

and produced the actual code

<cite class="inline">Dold & Puppe (<a href="#CITEREFDoldPuppe1961" title="">1961</a>)</cite>.

To my eyes, the rendering contains an extra-large space between "Dold & Puppe" and (1961), rather like:

Dold & Puppe  (1961).

Going by the code, it looks like the only thing that could have done this is the <cite class="inline"> tag. I have no idea how this thing works; does it, perhaps, recognize the parentheses (as the class might indicate) and put a space there? If so, it ought to be changed; it's ugly. Ryan Reich (talk) 22:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It would have been nice if this were to have gotten a response from the author. As it turns out, I took a look at Template:Harvard citations/core and found that this long space is because the template is coded with a &ensp; (an en space), which is of course an extra-long space. If no one comes forward to defend this within a week or so, I will change it. Ryan Reich (talk) 21:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed it. Ryan Reich (talk) 17:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Resolved

A very bad bug in this template; should the template be deleted?

In Beauville–Laszlo theorem, it says

It was proved by Arnaud Beauville & Yves Laszlo (1995).

So I was going to change the ampersand to the word "and". But this template causes the ampersand to appear, not just in the list of references, but in the sentence in the article. Probably I will replace this template in the article with something else. Michael Hardy (talk) 22:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

... and now I've put a "cleanup" tag on Beauville–Laszlo theorem and explained at talk:Beauville–Laszlo theorem that it's because the article uses this template that it needs to be cleaned up. Can anyone suggest an alternative that doesn't have the horrible bug? Michael Hardy (talk) 22:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

This bug is indeed extremely ugly. Since this template looks like the only Harvard citation template (other than the totally inadequate {{Harvard citation}}), it is important that it work properly. Could someone with expertise in hacking templates please arrange this one so that it formats a list of authors in the usual style, i.e.:

{{Harvard citations|last1=Beilinson|last2=Bernstein|last3=Deligne|year=1982|txt=yes}}

should read:

Beilinson, Bernstein, and Deligne (1982).

No quarter will be given concerning the presence of a second comma in this list :). Note also the spacing issue raised in the previous heading. Ryan Reich (talk) 22:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the commas. Michael Hardy (talk) 04:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

This is fixed and now renders as: Beilinson, Bernstein, and Deligne (1982). ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:13, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved

More ugly formatting

In addition to the ugly formatting above, we have some defective forms even without txt=yes. Consider the following citation:

• {{Harvard citations|last=Griess|year=1983|loc=p. 91}}

which produces

• (Griess 1983, p. 91)

or

• (Griess 1983 p. 91).

Note the lack of any kind of punctuation. I also see a double space, like

• (Griess  1983 p. 91)

though it is clearly some kind of formatting illusion, since it cuts-and-pastes as a single space (and then that single space displays as a double space after being pasted! Mysterious). My complaint concerns the punctuation. Compare this with the way Template:Harvard citation works: see their "recommended style" section; the upshot is that

• {{Harvard citation|Griess|1983|loc=p. 91}}

would format like

• (Griess 1983, p. 91),

looks like

• (Griess 1983, p. 91).

Again, Template:Harvard citation is not a substitute for this one, because it only handles very simple citations. Please, someone who knows this template should fix it. Ryan Reich (talk) 05:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Resolved

. Presumed fixed. I could not replicate it. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 06:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

URL

Change request: Can url parameter be added to these templates? That will be useful if google books has a full/partial view or if some other website provides a download link for books (say, for the ones with copyrights expired). In these cases, it will be useful for article reviewers or curious readers to check the url rather than running to a library to get hold of the book. --GDibyendu (talk) 13:41, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

The url parameter goes in the citation template, not the harvs template. r.e.b. (talk) 05:12, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

See Template:Harvard citation documentation#Adding a URL for the page or location for a possible technique. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Format-mangling

This template put things (in parentheses), and then as one modifies the size of one's browser window, a line break will appear between the left parenthesis and the material within the parentheses.

So it looks (

like this).

I observed this in Robinson–Schensted algorithm. It might not hurt to correct that, if possible. Michael Hardy (talk) 18:49, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

This might now be fixed. r.e.b. (talk) 05:13, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Resolved

...and another problem

An article begins like this:

In algebraic geometry, a Kummer quartic surface, first studied by Kummer (1864), is an irreducible algebraic surface of degree 4 in $\mathbb {P} ^{3}$ with the maximal possible number of 16 double points.

What the reader sees is this, plus links and bolding:

In algebraic geometry, a Kummer quartic surface, first studied by Kummer (1864), is an irreducible algebraic surface of degree 4 in $\mathbb {P} ^{3}$ with the maximal possible number of 16 double points.

"Ernst Kummer" appears within the template, but the reader sees just "Kummer". I was going to take a second or two and alter it so that the reader sees "Ernst Kummer", since I think in the first sentence that's how it should appear.

But that would involve reading some documentation, without any assurance that I'll figure it out in five minutes, which is far more time than I was going to spend on this simple point. Maybe I'll be back tomorrow..... Michael Hardy (talk) 03:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

{{harvs|txt|authorlink=Ernst Kummer|last=Kummer|first=Ernst|year=1864}} now renders correctly as: Ernst Kummer (1864). So I think this was resolved. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved

{{{quote}}}

Would there be any interest in adding a quote parameter to this? (Of course, quotes can be simply added outside the template too... but who knows.) rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 14:10, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

• Support. I just wanted to ask the same question. I usually just add the quote outside the template, but it would be much better to have it inside for consistency with all the {{citation}} templates. Laurent (talk) 11:41, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
• Any follow up on this? It would be very useful to have this quote parameter on both this template and {{Sfn}}. Laurent (talk) 15:04, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

A similar request was raised recently at Template talk:Sfn#Allowing quotes as an attribute. In the case of {{harvs}}, I suggest tacking it onto the end of the relevant |locn= parameter, as in

{{harvs | ... |loc1=p. 123 "Lorem ipsum"}}

--Redrose64 (talk) 11:53, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Print version

When printed in books, this template pollutes the index of books. This is because there is a section link somewhere in that template (aka [[#CITEREF|Foobar]]), and the index in generated using the links of articles. Would it be possible to create a version of this template without the section link? Aka, one that displays Smith 2006, p.25, rather than Smith 2006, p.25?

I can upload the code at {{Harvard citations/core/Print}} once it's written (or anyone else with user account creation rights, as these pages are blacklisted for the moment). Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 05:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Did this ever get written? I don't see it. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:24, 17 February 2011 (UTC)