Template talk:Did you know/Toposa People, Nadapal, Narus, South Sudan

Toposa People, Nadapal, Narus, South Sudan

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Sharktopus ^talk

... that the Toposa people of Nadapal must walk four hours to reach the nearest secondary school at Narus, South Sudan ....?

Reviewed: Styles and themes of Robert E. Howard [1]
Reviewed: Mely G. Tan [2]
Reviewed: Al Lerner (composer) [3]
Comment: The hook is in Nadapal, fourth reference (USAID assessement)

5x expanded by Aymatth2 (talk). Self nom at 02:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please add a comment and signature (or just a signature if endorsing) after each aspect you have reviewed:
Hook

Length, format, content rules: Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:50, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Source: Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:50, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Interest: Interesting enough.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Image suitability: Beautiful pictures. I suggest using one. Licenses are suitable.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree on the wonderful images from Steve Evans. My strong preference would for be the one on the right. Aymatth2 (talk) 04:26, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I like the mother and child pic better. The picture of children might also be more appropriate for the hook, but anything will do really. :) P.S. I've resized all pics to actual DYK dimensions (100px x 100px) -- Obsidi♠n Soul 08:20, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ALT hooks, if proposed:

This is for use with the picture of the children. ALT1 ... that Toposa children (example pictured) from Nadapal must walk four hours to reach the nearest secondary school at Narus, South Sudan?

Article Toposa People

Length:-- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Vintage:-- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sourcing (V, RS, BLP): -- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutrality: Not too sure about the lead. Should the fact that they sided with the SPLA or the government of Sudan be mentioned prominently?-- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Given the intensity and duration of the Second Sudanese Civil War, I think the Toposa position in this conflict belongs in the lead. I hope there are no judgements in the article on whether they were morally or practically right or wrong in their decisions. Aymatth2 (talk) 03:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gotcha, and yep, seemed neutral enough, no worries.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 08:20, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism/close paraphrasing: Checked Ref 5. Within acceptable limits imo, without changing the meaning entirely.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Copyvio: -- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious faults in prose, structure, formatting: Minor stuff.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 01:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Article Narus, South Sudan

Length: Schwede 66 19:22, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Vintage: Schwede 66 19:22, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sourcing (V, RS, BLP): Looks all decent. Schwede 66 19:22, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutrality: The locals being attacked by government troops is backed up by what looks like independent sources. Schwede 66 19:22, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

IRIN and Reuters are good sources. Compared to other towns Narus was remote from the fighting in the Second Sudanese Civil War and got off lightly. Narus was not attacked by government troops, but was bombed a few times. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:51, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism/close paraphrasing: In the article, it says:
"26 girls were pulled out of St. Bakhita School by their parents following a bombing raid in December 1998." In the source, it says:
"After a bombing raid in December 1998, 26 girls were pulled out of St. Bakhita School by their parents. " That's a bit too close for comfort. Please go back and rephrase this and other such instances to avoid such close paraphrasing. Schwede 66 19:22, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I dropped the sentence from the article. I can't see a better way to present the fact, but it is not essential. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:27, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio: Nothing found. Schwede 66 19:22, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious faults in prose, structure, formatting: Fixed one minor thing myself. Schwede 66 19:22, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Article Nadapal

Length: Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Vintage: Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sourcing (V, RS, BLP): Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutrality: Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Plagiarism/close paraphrasing: Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Copyvio: Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious faults in prose, structure, formatting:

Comments/discussion:

I prefer the pictures of the children. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:50, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Beautiful. I prefer my ALT (if used with the pictures of the children), but the original is good too. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Returned from preps because: can't verify the hook in the article or ref cited. That there is a school within 4-hour walk does not mean the children must walk there. The hook reads as they all, must, walk there. Materialscientist (talk) 01:24, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The source, Page 6 Section 16 Education, says there is no secondary school in Nadapal and says (in the wrong place) the nearest one is in Narus 3:40 minutes away by foot, 25 km away. Narus is the nearest town and does have a secondary school, so this checks out. The article says "almost four hours distant by foot" since 25 km in less than four hours is real fast walking. As far as I can tell, there are no school buses in this area, and the parents do not drop the kids off at school on the way to work since they do not have cars, but the articles do not say that. It is also true that very few children go on to secondary school. How about ALT2 below: Aymatth2 (talk) 02:03, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2 ... that for Toposa children (example pictured) from Nadapal the nearest secondary school is at Narus, South Sudan, almost four hours away by foot?

Better. Problems: (1) The ref is inconsistent on routes and says either 3:00 or 3:40 "minutes" is needed to travel those 25 km. It also suggests public transport, trucks, cars, bicycles go from there to the city. Thus perhaps ALT2a ... that for Toposa children (pictured) from Nadapal the nearest secondary school is 25 km away, at Narus, South Sudan? (2) The document was last updated in 2007. The local school might have been upgraded to secondary by now. Materialscientist (talk) 05:12, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It does look as if there is public transport to Narus, although I suspect most people save money and walk. I hunted around and found a bit more content on the primary school, which I added, but nothing more recent than 2009. If a secondary school had been opened or was planned, that would have been mentioned somewhere online. English-language coverage of this area is quite good and the NGOs would announce the breakthrough. But lack of mention does not prove lack of existence, I suppose. How about ALT3 below: Aymatth2 (talk) 14:21, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ALT3 ... that for Toposa children (pictured) from Nadapal in 2007 the nearest secondary school was 25 km away at Narus, South Sudan?

None of these alts address the problem raised with the hook while it was in prep: to refer only to the Toposa children when the Toposa make up 90% of the village rather than 100% implies that other children do not have to travel the same distance. See here and here. Yomangani ^talk 15:43, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. How about ALT4 below: Aymatth2 (talk) 16:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ALT4 ... that for Toposa children (pictured) and others from Nadapal in 2007 the nearest secondary school was 25 km away at Narus, South Sudan?

That seems OK, although the "in 2007" feels a bit odd there. What about:

ALT5 ... that, in 2007, for the Toposa (pictured) and other children from Nadapal the nearest secondary school was 25 km away at Narus, South Sudan? Yomangani ^talk 15:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ALT5 works for me - clearer. Aymatth2 (talk) 15:43, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ready to go again then. Yomangani ^talk 15:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]