Template talk:Campaignbox Idlib escalation period in the Syrian Civil War

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Military history: Middle East

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Qalamoun offensive (July–August 2017)

In the conflict in Lebanon, this is the third offensive in Qalamun. In the Syrian Civil War, this is the fourth offensive in Qalamun. The third offensive of the Syrian Arab Army was in May and June 2015.--Baba Mica (talk) 09:09, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Idlib escalation

The escalation in Idlib occurred in December, and not in November. As for the Turkish offensive on Afrin. This is the third offensive of the Turkish army in Syria. The first was against ISIL (Aug. 2016 - Mar. 2017), the second against Tahrir al Sham (October 2017 - Jan. 2018) and the third against Kurd (Jan. 2018 - present). --Baba Mica (talk) 13:57, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

SAA operations escalated in November, not December, when they opened not one but two new axis of advance during their campaign. The second Turkish military involvement was not an offensive, but rather a kind of peacekeeping operation as part of the Astana accords and it was most definitely not against HTS who were confirmed to had actually escorted the Turks to their observation posts. Reliable sources are regularly calling the offensive against Afrin as Turkey's second intervention/offensive/incursion into Syria. EkoGraf (talk) 14:31, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And when exactly did it escalate? What you were talking about was not in Idlib, but in the northeastern Hama. If you are thinking of destroying ISIL, his uprising on November 21 was not in Idlib, but in the northeastern Hama. Before the minor conflict turned into a conflicted military campaign, the text was called by Northeastern Hama offensive (2017) to Northwestern Syria offensive (October 2017–present) for nearly three months. Of course, I'm referring to this article: Northwestern Syria campaign (October 2017–present). Everything was casual on both sides of the shelling that had not stopped since 2015 and was much more severe in March and April during the Hama offensive (March-April 2017) than in the period October-December of the same year. The Syrian army was busy fighting with ISIL until the corridor and the connection between the terrain from the left and right of the Euphrates River were crossed. The escalation in Idlib began on December 3rd, in the south-eastern Idlib, shifting the front by little. A real breakthrough only took place on December 26th when the rebels languished and the Tigers forces intervened in the fight and set off on the Abu al-Duhur strip. Then I realized that this is a very broad military campaign, not a classic offensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_Syria_campaign_(October_2017%E2%80%93present)#Push_into_southeastern_Idlib --Baba Mica (talk) 16:37, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The main titles of the infoboxes are not tied to the exact dates. The main titles present one or two of the most defining battles of the period, while the dates can be sometime before that. The end of ISIL came with the fall of Abu Kamal on November 19. At this time, and before the Idlib escalation, came the Harasta and Beit Jinn battles, which started in November. And both of these battles are listed in this infobox per agreement. EkoGraf (talk) 17:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Harasta and Beit Jinn are about 300km away from the province of Idlib. It does not need to know the exact date, but the period of fierce escalations in November. However, the 2017 Abu Kamal offensive ended on December 6th and the Eastern Syria campaign (September-December 2017) on December 17th. You're right about Harasta and Beit Jinn. It is true that there was an escalation in November. But I see that in the foreground there is an escalation in Idlib, which is not true that there was any major escalation in November. Now I do not know what you consider as a priority. Harasta? Beit Jinn? Idlib? I think that Idlib is the biggest culprit for this war as it was before Aleppo if it refers to the conflict between the government and the opposition. During the month of November, there were fighting on the Euphrates River and they were brought to an end. In the northwest, 90% were held in the northeastern Hama province. Given the complete escalation between the government and the opposition, then the fighting for Harasta and Beit Jinn broke out in November, but they are not the first escalators. The Syrian Arab Aramiya was involved in the rebellion and ISIL conflict as early as October in the province of Northeast Hama. In November, I did not believe that a broad military campaign would take place in the north-west by the end of 2017, as it did not act seriously and everything was announced for the spring of 2018. In December, everything was clear, especially as it approached the end of the Beit Jinn offensive.--Baba Mica (talk) 18:45, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I will just repeat, the SAA's escalation started in November with their offensive in northeast Hama to break into Idlib. The same offensive then continued from Hama into Idlib. During the same period we also had the Harasta and Beit Jinn battles which are thus also included in this infobox per agreement. Both the SAA's escalation of the northwest campaign, Harasta and Beit Jinn started in November, while at this point (Nov. 19th) ISIL had been defeated in Abu Kamal city. That is why we put November as the start date of this infobox. The name/title Idlib escalation is the agreed-to-wording. If you wish for some other name and change it feel free to make a proposal. EkoGraf (talk) 17:56, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]