Template:Did you know nominations/Yi Qiu
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Zanhe (talk) 04:08, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
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Yi Qiu
[edit]Created by Kingoflettuce (talk). Self-nominated at 08:34, 17 March 2016 (UTC).
Article is barely long enough (just pass the 1500 character limit by 15-30 characters depending on what you count). Unfortunately, it's not clear (1) sources are RS [there are four sources, one is a PDF hosted on a high school website, the other three are by vanity publishers], (2) the text doesn't seem to correspond to what is stated precisely (it could be misinterpretation on my part but I'm near-fluent). It is new enough, at least. So that's something. LavaBaron (talk) 22:11, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
- PDF is just a reproduction of the Mencius text, from which most info of Yi Qiu may be gleaned. That is about as far as it goes -- is it against the rules to barely meet 1500 chars? Yi Qiu was the first recorded Weiqi player, something explicitly mentioned in the source (which is most defo an RS, and cited for verification). The same claim is made elsewhere in the recesses of the Web. Unfortunately, him being an ancient figure, there isn't anything much left to be written of. If you disagree with the translation of sources (I admit I am not so proficient either -- we are what you may call 'bananas') please tweak it, but I guarantee the intended meaning is there. It's tough getting the precise meaning out from a translation. Things like "benevolent" are definitely correct though. Kingoflettuce (talk) 03:14, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
A plain text PDF hosted on a high school website without any qualification (unclear if this is a 9th grade student’s personal account or what) is just not RS, regardless of what it claims to be a reproduction of, unfortunately. And New World Press seems to be a vanity publishing house so is also not RS. If the same claim is made “all over the web”, then there should be no problem finding a RS, hopefully. As for the translation, I’m not at all comfortable with the license taken, but if someone else feels comfortable enough with it to green-light it for DYK, I won’t object. As for now, I'm going to "no" this, without objection to a new review, if you want one. LavaBaron (talk) 03:51, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
- Lol, how do you expect me to get a copy of the aeons-old Mengzi? Obvs it has to be a verbatim reproduction somewhere. How reliable must a reproduction be? It checks out everywhere else. This is not "license" -- I'm not writing poetry, nothing drastic is changed. I thought you meant subtle semantics; is 女子 better off as "girl", "lady", or "woman"? Ah, these little things I might not be able to grasp. But the intended meaning in essence is there. I'm an ethnic Chinese btw, so quite hurt by your questioning of my source interpretation. Pray list out the mistakes you speak of! Don't sully my reputation like that, because I've worked on many Chinese articles here and they seem to be quite good. Of course, there may be mistakes here and there, all these are bound to be minor flaws in humans, 不是故意的。 I'm not familiar with vanity sources, but it checked out to me. By and large gbook sources should be OK. Can a third party comment? Don't flat out reject a legit DYK like that! :P thankz Kingoflettuce (talk) 11:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
A reproduction published in T'oung Pao would generally be RS. A reproduction published on the personal website of a 9th grader at NT Heung Secondary School would generally not be RS. But you are certainly entitled to request a second opinion and I've ticked this with the new review icon. LavaBaron (talk) 16:52, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
- I've added a citation for a published book which substantiates Yi Qiu as the first named player of Go. See: Buzan, Tony; Keene, Raymond (2005). Buzan's book of mental world records. Hassocks: D & B. p. 106. ISBN 978-1904468172. "Yi Qiu was the first named go player in literature, being mentioned by Mencius in the 4th century" Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 07:52, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- Lol, how do you expect me to get a copy of the aeons-old Mengzi? Obvs it has to be a verbatim reproduction somewhere. How reliable must a reproduction be? It checks out everywhere else. This is not "license" -- I'm not writing poetry, nothing drastic is changed. I thought you meant subtle semantics; is 女子 better off as "girl", "lady", or "woman"? Ah, these little things I might not be able to grasp. But the intended meaning in essence is there. I'm an ethnic Chinese btw, so quite hurt by your questioning of my source interpretation. Pray list out the mistakes you speak of! Don't sully my reputation like that, because I've worked on many Chinese articles here and they seem to be quite good. Of course, there may be mistakes here and there, all these are bound to be minor flaws in humans, 不是故意的。 I'm not familiar with vanity sources, but it checked out to me. By and large gbook sources should be OK. Can a third party comment? Don't flat out reject a legit DYK like that! :P thankz Kingoflettuce (talk) 11:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
- PDF is just a reproduction of the Mencius text, from which most info of Yi Qiu may be gleaned. That is about as far as it goes -- is it against the rules to barely meet 1500 chars? Yi Qiu was the first recorded Weiqi player, something explicitly mentioned in the source (which is most defo an RS, and cited for verification). The same claim is made elsewhere in the recesses of the Web. Unfortunately, him being an ancient figure, there isn't anything much left to be written of. If you disagree with the translation of sources (I admit I am not so proficient either -- we are what you may call 'bananas') please tweak it, but I guarantee the intended meaning is there. It's tough getting the precise meaning out from a translation. Things like "benevolent" are definitely correct though. Kingoflettuce (talk) 03:14, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
- Second opinion has been requested on sourcing issues. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:20, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- @LavaBaron: That was a commendably thoughtful review. To address your points, Mary Mark Ockerbloom has added a reliable source for the hook, and I've replaced the secondary school source for Mencius with the more reliable Chinese Text Project (ctext.org), as well as a published book. Maybe it's time for a re-review? Regards, -Zanhe (talk) 18:45, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
PASS LavaBaron (talk) 23:58, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
