Template:Did you know nominations/Wintermärchen (opera)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 13:40, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
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Wintermärchen (opera)
[edit]... that the opera Wintermärchen is mostly in German because the composer and the librettist could not bear to cut Shakespeare's original?Source: [1]
- Reviewed: Actinostola callosa
5x expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 11:50, 29 June 2017 (UTC).
New enough, no plagiarism, etc. However, I have two issues--one minor, one less so. First, I don't like "cut" in the hook. I know it's from the source, and I know what is meant, but "cut" doesn't, it seems to me, mean "cut lines from Shakespeare's text" to most readers. "Edit" doesn't quite carry the violence of "cut", but it is more specifically geared toward text. Second, and this is bigger, if I take out the quotes I get some 1200 characters; I'm not counting the table or the "Recordings" section, and that needs to be addressed. Drmies (talk) 16:25, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- Would it help to say "cut", in quotation marks? I believe that cutting is a frequently used word in film, with a similar meaning, no? Or "shorten"? Or "mess with"? Or a different hook? - The length issue can be easily fixed, only, I had to nominate today, last day, and had other issues. We can install a plot section (as in German), for example, but I thought as it stays close to Shakespeare, the play one one should do. What do you think? - I have unreviewed DYK from May, why do you look at this? ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:26, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- Expanded --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:07, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and Drmies: I find the hook difficult to understand. would you be happy with ALT1?
- Expanded --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:07, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- ALT1
... that though mostly in German, the opera Wintermärchen contains some English language scenes because the composer and librettist could not bear to cut Shakespeare's original?Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:29, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry, that reads about the opposite of the intended meaning. At least add "only a few" , - perhaps "reluctant to cut" instead of "could not bear ..."? Let's perhaps try to mention Shakespeare sooner:
- ALT2:
... that the opera Wintermärchen after Shakespeare's The Winter's Tale is mostly in German with only a few scenes in English, because the composer and librettist were reluctant to "cut" the original?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:38, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
- ALT2:
A new reviewer is needed because I find ALT2 and ALT0 confusing / incomprehensible, and I am told that ALT1 is incorrect. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:21, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
- ALT1: how does the wish not to "cut" explain that there are English scenes? It would be all in English if they were not afraid to mess with Shakespeare, - being afraid explains the German, not the English, to my understanding. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
- I'm confused by the underlying fact here—if reluctant to cut Shakespeare, wouldn't it be mostly in English, not mostly in German? How does translating English to German not alter (or cut) the original Shakespearean text? --Usernameunique (talk) 08:37, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
- I understand it like this: it hurt them to cut the original, and it hurt less to do it in a different language. But if it's not clear we should say something else, however simple:
- ALT3:
... that the opera Wintermärchen by Philippe Boesmans, based on Shakespeare's The Winter's Tale, is mostly in German with some scenes in English?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:35, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
ALT3 seems fine to me. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, I came by to promote this, but ALT3 seems very dull to me. I added some more detail from the source; what do you think about:
- ALT4:
... that the opera Wintermärchen by Philippe Boesmans, based on Shakespeare's The Winter's Tale, features both orchestral music and jazz-rock performed by the Belgian group Aka Moon?Yoninah (talk) 20:44, 23 August 2017 (UTC)- Thanks for trying. Aka Moon played only in the premiere, the hook sounds as if you need the group for the opera ;) - just returned from a great jazz concert, Michael Wollny and Friends. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Well, then:
- ALT5: ... that the premiere of the opera Wintermärchen by Philippe Boesmans, based on Shakespeare's The Winter's Tale, featured jazz-rock music by the Belgian group Aka Moon? Yoninah (talk) 21:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
- Fine with me, needs a reviewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: thanks. Please add the part about it being only in the premiere in the article, with a cite. Yoninah (talk) 21:31, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
- Done --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:17, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks. Review needed of ALT5. Pinging @Cwmhiraeth:. Yoninah (talk) 22:14, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
- Done --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:17, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
Approving ALT5. Other aspects of the review as per previous reviewer. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 04:58, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
- I'm confused by the underlying fact here—if reluctant to cut Shakespeare, wouldn't it be mostly in English, not mostly in German? How does translating English to German not alter (or cut) the original Shakespearean text? --Usernameunique (talk) 08:37, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
