Template:Did you know nominations/Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:10, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan
[edit]
Nordhausen hymnal of 1695
... that according to a hymnal (account pictured), Samuel Rodigast wrote the text of "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" for his seriously ill friend Severus Gastorius, who composed the melody?Source: hymnal clipping pictured, + offline sources
- Reviewed: The Tank (theater)
- Comment: The article began as an AfC by 69.165.196.103 and was expanded by Mathsci. - Many sources say "deathbed", but then he recovered. - Please with image, even if it is hard to see, or we need a year in the already long hook. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
5x expanded by 69.165.196.103 (talk) and Mathsci (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 16:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC).
New enough, long enough. Neutral, cited to offline sources, AGF on close paraphrasing/copyvios since I can't access the offline sources. Hook is interesting, especially if you click through and note the recovery, and short enough. It's not quite supported by the article text. Gerda Arendt, could you double-check the source (or ask Mathsci to do so) and ensure that the "for his friend" bit is supported? If that can't specifically be verified, we could reword this along the lines of so-and-so wrote the text of blank to accompany a melody composed by so-and-so-2 on his deathbed. I'll leave the specifics of that wording to you so I'm still able to approve an alt hook, if you have to re-word. As for the image, I really can't approve it. It's so impossible to see at small sizes that it would be fairly useless on the main page. Sheet music might be a decent compromise, since the sheet music images will at least be recognizable at low resolutions. ~ Rob13Talk 00:16, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
- The source is here.[1] The authorship of the melody has been an issue since the hymn was written. Taking into account BU Rob13's comments above, perhaps the DYK hook could be changed to
- "that according to a hymnal (account pictured), Samuel Rodigast wrote the text of "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" for his seriously ill friend Severus Gastorius, who after he recovered had it sung at his door each week."
- Mathsci (talk) 08:08, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
- @Mathsci: I was more concerned with the "for his friend" bit. (Although authorship is also possibly an issue, now that I've seen the source.) That's attributing a reason for writing the text that isn't explicitly stated in the source. ~ Rob13Talk 00:50, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- User:Gerda Arendt made this DYK request and devised the hook, not me. Another possibility might be ""that according to a hymnal (account pictured), Samuel Rodigast wrote the text of "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" during the serious illness of his friend Severus Gastorius, who after he recovered had it sung at his door each week." Mathsci (talk) 06:42, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- We could say it completely differently, because we will never be able to know reasons behind an action as a fact, ever. Fact is that the two were friends at school and university, and that Rodigast - if he was at the bed - must have traveled.
- ALT2:
... that a "deathbed story" printed in 1695 (pictured) narrates the creation of the hymn "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan"? - Please, Rob, even if you don't agree with showing an image, don't change a hook. It will be up to the prep builders to use it or not. Most suggested images will not be shown. This one supports the hook. The current Gotteslob simply states below the hymn: T: Samuel Rodigast [1674/75] 1775, M: (Severus Gastorius [1675] 1679. No question about the authors, just the dates are not certain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerda Arendt (talk • contribs) 08:30, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- I don't think ALT2 is an improvement. Also I think Gerda should base what she what wants to include in the hook or her statements about the subject to what is in the article. Mathsci (talk) 15:25, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mathsci, it doesn't have to be word by word in the article, - this a suggestion to use a summary, which doesn't distract attention by links to the authors' articles. If you don't like it, it's your turn to suggest something better. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- I already made two suggestions further up the page. Why not read them and then comment? Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 20:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
This has been stalled for too long, Gerda Arendt, Mathsci, BU Rob13. I pinged Gerda Arendt's page, but she was clear that she felt it wasn't her responsibility to take the next step. If no progress has been made in within the next seven days—which would seem to involve new ALT hooks (Mathsci's objection to ALT2 would seem to make it not worth reviewing)—this nomination will be marked for closure. One note to Mathsci: the second hook you proposed (at 06:42, 20 February 2017) is 212 characters excluding the "(account pictured)", and thus too long to be eligible for DYK. Hooks musts be shorter than 200 characters after exclusions, and shorter is generally better. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:38, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
- I already made two suggestions further up the page. Why not read them and then comment? Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 20:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mathsci, it doesn't have to be word by word in the article, - this a suggestion to use a summary, which doesn't distract attention by links to the authors' articles. If you don't like it, it's your turn to suggest something better. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- I don't think ALT2 is an improvement. Also I think Gerda should base what she what wants to include in the hook or her statements about the subject to what is in the article. Mathsci (talk) 15:25, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- User:Gerda Arendt made this DYK request and devised the hook, not me. Another possibility might be ""that according to a hymnal (account pictured), Samuel Rodigast wrote the text of "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" during the serious illness of his friend Severus Gastorius, who after he recovered had it sung at his door each week." Mathsci (talk) 06:42, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- @Mathsci: I was more concerned with the "for his friend" bit. (Although authorship is also possibly an issue, now that I've seen the source.) That's attributing a reason for writing the text that isn't explicitly stated in the source. ~ Rob13Talk 00:50, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- The source is here.[1] The authorship of the melody has been an issue since the hymn was written. Taking into account BU Rob13's comments above, perhaps the DYK hook could be changed to
- There are so many things you might say, for example simply, and can't be said of any other hymn, and rather literally from the article:
- ALT3: ... that three cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach take their name from the hymn "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" (What God does, that is done well)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:55, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
- BlueMoonset, this slipped under my radar. I'm going to let another editor review this to get a second opinion on the image, though. ~ Rob13Talk 03:05, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
New reviewer needed to check hooks and give second opinion on image. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:09, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'm not particularly keen on Gerda Arendt's new suggestion. Given that length was a problem and that this is not the German wikipedia, I would drop the image from the German hymnal and simply have as a hook:
- ALT4:
... the words of the 17th century hymn "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" were written for Severus Gastorius while he was on his sick bed and that he had it sung at his door each week after he recovered."
- ALT4:
- Mathsci (talk) 06:53, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- Mathsci, your proposed hook is a little over the 200-character limit. I've made some modifications, and this comes in at 195 characters:
- ALT5: ... that the words of the 17th-century hymn "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" were written for Severus Gastorius while he was gravely ill, and he had it sung at his door each week after he recovered? —BlueMoonset (talk) 07:56, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- That is fine. Mathsci (talk) 08:32, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- I renumbered, bolded the subject in ALT5 and linked it. The hook is acceptable, but places a lot of weight on Gastorius and his door, while Rodigast isn't even mentioned, nor the enormous impact this particular hymn had on music history. not only Bach but Liszt, Reger and others. I struck a few and shortened the original, to make life easier for a new reviewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- Instead of the original, borrowing a word from ALT5, here's:
- ALT6:
... that according to a 1695 hymnal, Samuel Rodigast wrote the text of "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" for his gravely ill friend Severus Gastorius?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:35, 12 March 2017 (UTC)- I liked BlueMoonset's alternative. I don't particularly like what Gerda has suggested nor her reasoning, mainly because she seems to have missed the point of the sick bed story. Her hook is uninteresting and inaccurate, as the the hymnbook cited in the text of the article is from 1687 (no digitised images were available for that hymnbook, only the later 1695 edition, as mentioned in the Commons file description). Without an image I see no point in mentioning either the 1687 hymnbook or the alternative digitised hymnbook from which I created the image. Gerda's comments on how the hymn was later used refer to content added by me. Given the limitations, I don't see how her alternative hook gives any insight into the significance of the hymn. It is mentioned in the Encyclopedia Britannica as one of the earliest examples of a pietist hymn. That spiritual—un-Lutheran—aspect comes across in the "kranckenbett" story. Perhaps that could be another possible hook (I found it interesting when I discovered it!):
- ALT 7: "... that the 17th-century German hymn "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" was described in the Encyclopædia Britannica as "one of the most exquisite strains of pious resignation ever written"?"
- Mathsci (talk) 11:06, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- I like ALT7 best so far. Correcting (you are right about the year, which actually doesn't matter, should just say it's not a modern hymnal but centuries of tradition):
- ALT8: ... that according to a 1687 hymnal, Samuel Rodigast wrote the text of "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" for his gravely ill friend Severus Gastorius? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:22, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- I liked BlueMoonset's alternative. I don't particularly like what Gerda has suggested nor her reasoning, mainly because she seems to have missed the point of the sick bed story. Her hook is uninteresting and inaccurate, as the the hymnbook cited in the text of the article is from 1687 (no digitised images were available for that hymnbook, only the later 1695 edition, as mentioned in the Commons file description). Without an image I see no point in mentioning either the 1687 hymnbook or the alternative digitised hymnbook from which I created the image. Gerda's comments on how the hymn was later used refer to content added by me. Given the limitations, I don't see how her alternative hook gives any insight into the significance of the hymn. It is mentioned in the Encyclopedia Britannica as one of the earliest examples of a pietist hymn. That spiritual—un-Lutheran—aspect comes across in the "kranckenbett" story. Perhaps that could be another possible hook (I found it interesting when I discovered it!):
- Mathsci, your proposed hook is a little over the 200-character limit. I've made some modifications, and this comes in at 195 characters:
- I'm not particularly keen on Gerda Arendt's new suggestion. Given that length was a problem and that this is not the German wikipedia, I would drop the image from the German hymnal and simply have as a hook:
- BlueMoonset, this slipped under my radar. I'm going to let another editor review this to get a second opinion on the image, though. ~ Rob13Talk 03:05, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
- Length, Date, QPQ, and Earwigs check. As this has been sitting for a while I am approving ALT7 (online cite checks) and ALT5 (offline and foreign language refs AGF). The image is not horrific at that resolution but considering that we generally have a glut of image hooks we can certainly run this without an image. Mifter (talk) 17:12, 15 March 2017 (UTC)