Template:Did you know nominations/Valentine (Maurice Chevalier song)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:59, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
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Valentine (Maurice Chevalier song)
[edit]- ... that the original lyrics of Maurice Chevalier's song "Valentine" were changed so not to shock the American public?
Created/expanded by Moscow Connection (talk). Self-nominated at 23:58, 17 December 2017 (UTC).
Legendary song, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. The hook is fine and sourced. I have some wishes for the article which is a bit like a collection of interesting facts in no particular order. Example: under the header "Background", I'd expect a brief introduction who the singer was (no, don't take for granted that all our readers know him), and then in chronological order what made him write this song when etc. in chronology, not first what someone thought about it later (which would better go to the lead). Generally, one-sentence paragraphs are frowned upon. Do you agree to make some changes? - Take your time, then perhaps we reserve this for Valentine's day, - reservations no longer than six weeks ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:12, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- Okay, I will try to expand it. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:42, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- I have expanded the article by translating from the French Wikipedia. Is the article okay now? Yes, I would like it to be reserved for Valentine's day.
By the way, I wonder if we can find a hookier hook. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:09, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
- COMMENT: I find the article still too choppy. Would there be a copyright problem with adding the lyrics of the chorus to the article? In French and in English? The rhyming makes great sense in French (petons/tetons, menton/mouton). Apparently, the 'cleaned-up' version in French but for the American audiences, rhymed petons/piton. David notMD (talk) 07:52, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- I will look later. I doubt that the translation is out of copyright. Better link to it if available somewhere. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- The article already has an External link to the lyrics in French. I recommend adding a link to an English translation. I guess the question is how much of a copyrighted song can be in the article as fair use, and also if a translation can be copyrighted. David notMD (talk) 13:52, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- Translations can certainly be copyrighted. If the above is from a published translation, then it shouldn't even be reproduced on this page. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:58, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- Chorus removed from this page. Would fair use allow for quoting a bit more of the chorus (both French and English) than is currently in the article? David notMD (talk) 03:49, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
- Assuming the song is still under copyright and given the short length of the lyrics, most likely not - per WP:COPYQUOTE we can't quote a "substantial portion" of the original work. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:38, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
- Chorus removed from this page. Would fair use allow for quoting a bit more of the chorus (both French and English) than is currently in the article? David notMD (talk) 03:49, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
- Translations can certainly be copyrighted. If the above is from a published translation, then it shouldn't even be reproduced on this page. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:58, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- The article already has an External link to the lyrics in French. I recommend adding a link to an English translation. I guess the question is how much of a copyrighted song can be in the article as fair use, and also if a translation can be copyrighted. David notMD (talk) 13:52, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- I will look later. I doubt that the translation is out of copyright. Better link to it if available somewhere. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- The article is much improved! Can you be consistent about songs in quotation marks (vs. italics)? And about the tense, - past tense preferred to present tense for encyclopedic "narration". I am not sure about "Maurice Chevalier", - usually it would be just "Chevalier", but his name is almost a trademark. - Can you write a bit more lead? No reference os needed in the lead for facts sourced in the body. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:07, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, Moscow Connection, it's been over three weeks since the most recent post—where does this nomination stand? BlueMoonset (talk) 00:35, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
- I will come back to the article tomorrow. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:40, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
I give it a tick as it is, but improvements are still welcome. More lead, for example. A sentence beginning "It is true" should be marked as a quotation or be rephrased. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:05, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
- I will come back to the article tomorrow. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:40, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, Moscow Connection, it's been over three weeks since the most recent post—where does this nomination stand? BlueMoonset (talk) 00:35, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
- The article is much improved! Can you be consistent about songs in quotation marks (vs. italics)? And about the tense, - past tense preferred to present tense for encyclopedic "narration". I am not sure about "Maurice Chevalier", - usually it would be just "Chevalier", but his name is almost a trademark. - Can you write a bit more lead? No reference os needed in the lead for facts sourced in the body. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:07, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
