Template:Did you know nominations/Up Marden

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:21, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Up Marden

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... that Wiohstan sold five hides at Up Marden (church pictured) to bishop Wulfhun to take his family on a journey to Rome?

Reviewed: Listed buildings in Northwich

5x expanded by Charlesdrakew (talk). Self nom at 18:47, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Expanded 5x (from 885 to 6233 bytes) starting 19 January. Hook is a good length, but it has no citation in the article. Neither do several other statements that probably require it (eg - the church "has been described as having one of the loveliest interiors in England", and " indicate that there was large scale farming of the area in the Roman period"). Please clarify the statement "an endowed school with six children of poor families was in being" in the education section. (Does "was in being" mean "existed"?) The citations I can access were verified, and paraphrasing is OK; AGF for other citations. A more trivial issue is that for people unfamiliar with the terms cassatos, manentern, and hide, the relationship between what was bought and sold becomes unclear in the second paragraph of the history section. Mind matrix 23:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I have made the hook closer to the text online cited at end of the paragraph. "Described by Nikolaus Pevsner as having one of the loveliest interiors in England" is cited at the end of the chunk of text sourced from Nairn and Pevsner. Yes "in being" means existed. Is that a problem? In British English it should not be a problem I think. The Anglo-Saxon units may be unclear but that just reflects what is in the source. Most of Anglo-Saxon history is unclear. I have changed the Roman farming text a bit. Remove it if that is not enough. Actually I have just found a source for a Roman villa in Up Marden. I will add it in the morning. I hope this helps.--Charles (talk) 01:15, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps I wasn't clear about what I meant regarding the hook. Per the DYK rules for the hook: "The hook fact must have an inline citation right after it, since the fact is an extraordinary claim; citing the hook fact at the end of the paragraph is not acceptable." Moreover, I've read through the source, and it doesn't appear to mention a pilgrimage to Rome by Wiohstan. Regarding the other points, I'm not concerned about the use of idiomatic British expressions, but they may seem awkward to a North American audience. The Nairn and Pevsner citation is missing information - title, publisher, isbn, etc. I assume it's the book Sussex, which has had a number of printings (1965, 1977, 1985) and publishers (Penguin, Yale University Press, perhaps others); I would have filled in the details, but I didn't know which printing you used. Mind matrix 15:34, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh dear. Mea culpa. I had forgotten that the part about Rome is in another source showing the original charters, now added, which covers the hook. I have fixed the Nairn and Pevsner reference.--Charles (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing those up. Reading the new source, it only mentions that they departed for Rome (proficescens in the Latin text at the source), it doesn't mention a pilgrimage. Once that's cleared up, this is good to go. Mind matrix 22:39, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I have changed pilgrimage to journey. I have another source which calls it a pilgrimage but if it is not in the original Latin better to leave it out. It is good to be held to a high standard. This may be the best referenced settlement article for England now. Most of them are full of original research and cruft. I quite randomly started work on this page because someone had stuck an unref tag on it and it turns out to have Saxon charters and links to the Knights Hospitaller. Thanks again for your efforts.--Charles (talk) 09:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Note that I don't speak Latin, and read it poorly. I was relying on Wiktionary (and Google translate, which did a poor job) to translate the text. I enjoyed reading the article - great work! Mind matrix 16:03, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing all the issues. This is good to go. Mind matrix 16:03, 24 January 2013 (UTC)