Template:Did you know nominations/Tony Tribe
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 20:58, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
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Tony Tribe
... that Tony Tribe's "Red Red Wine" was a "smash hit" in Balsall Heath?Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=wwQP5JmiYEQC&newbks=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PA34&dq=ub40+%22red+red+wine%22+%22smash+hits%22&hl=en
Moved to mainspace by Launchballer (talk). Self-nominated at 14:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Tony Tribe; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
I'm going to be frank here. I do not see the current hook as interesting to people unfamiliar with any of the linked names. It seems very reliant on knowledge that most Main Page readers may not be aware of. If I were to give a suggestion, perhaps the mistaken claim he died in a car accident may be a better and more appealing angle in this case. The article is also confusing: the article title is under "Tony Tribe", but the article consistently refers to him under his birth surname Mossop. This is not necessarily a DYK issue but perhaps there might need to be some discussion on what the article title should be under? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- My research says he is much better known as Tribe than Kingston but it might be worth a discussion to confirm this.
ALT1: ... that the "Red Red Wine" singer Tony Tribe is wrongly thought to have died in 1970?--Launchballer 06:06, 19 December 2023 (UTC)- ALT1 is a good direction but given that the song doesn't seem actually that well-known I'd like some other variants of ALT1 that still focus on the wrongful death angle but give different descriptors for Tribe/Mossop. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:02, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Another thing: is what happened to him after the 1970s known for certain? The article doesn't of course give complete confirmation that Mossop/Tribe/Kingston are the same person, only that multiple sources suggest it, and there's nothing talking about what happened after the early 1970s or his later life, or even if he's still alive. Per WP:DYKCOMPLETE, that might be an issue unless there simply isn't any known information. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- I saw a comment on Steve Hoffman's forums that suggested that he died in the late 1970s, so it's possible that someone hit '0' when they meant '9'. I don't think conjecture's good enough for a potential BLP though.--Launchballer 01:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- I see. Given the circumstances I wonder if a broader discussion of some kind would be needed here as it seems to be an unusual case on whether or not he's actually still alive, if the hook fact is accurate, and the link you gave. At the very least, I don't think the new hook could proceed as-is at the moment. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Jamaica Observer says "1970s", so it's possible that someone left off an "s". (It's also just possible that someone from Trojan got the hump about him moving to Canada and put out false press, but a) conjecture isn't good enough for a BLP, and b) perhaps I'm being overly cynical.)
ALT2: ... that Tony Tribe's version of future cross-Atlantic chart-topper "Red Red Wine" was the first UK Singles Chart entry for the then-fledgling Trojan Records?ALT3: ... that in 1969, Tony Tribe performed at the first Caribbean Music Festival, the first major reggae event to be held in Britain?- ALT4: ... that the Jamaica-born English reggae singer Tony Tribe used to have blouses thrown at him while performing as part of the Soul Seekers?--Launchballer 09:22, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Among the new hooks, ALT4 is probably the best option, although the thing about his death still needs to be resolved in the article before the nomination can be approved. Admittedly this could raise OR or SYNTH issues so resolving this might be difficult, but per WP:DYKCOMPLETE it's regrettably necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5: This fell off WT:DYK without a response. Do you want to call for another reviewer or approve it and see if a prepbuilder objects?--Launchballer 21:26, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
- The issue is article-related not nomination related so what I was asking for were possible solutions. If the issue cannot be addressed then I have my doubts that the article can run on DYK, though for reasons beyond our control. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:33, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
- This forum post suggests 1978, which puts to bed my idea of it being 1979 (or even 1980). The problem is those forum posts are user-generated, so could be made up, and it appears that his death hasn't made any papers, which doesn't seem to be unusual for musicians of that era.--Launchballer 00:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
- That does sound like a problem considering the lack of information. I mean at the current state the article suggests or at least leaves open the possibility that he is still alive, which does not appear to be the case, and I'm not comfortable signing off the nomination unless that is resolved, or if it can even be resolved within policy or guidelines. As much as I'd like to just ignore it and pass the nomination, WP:DYKCOMPLETE is a thing and I'd also not want this to end up at WP:ERRORS or elsewhere. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:23, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
- This forum post suggests 1978, which puts to bed my idea of it being 1979 (or even 1980). The problem is those forum posts are user-generated, so could be made up, and it appears that his death hasn't made any papers, which doesn't seem to be unusual for musicians of that era.--Launchballer 00:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
- The issue is article-related not nomination related so what I was asking for were possible solutions. If the issue cannot be addressed then I have my doubts that the article can run on DYK, though for reasons beyond our control. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:33, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5: This fell off WT:DYK without a response. Do you want to call for another reviewer or approve it and see if a prepbuilder objects?--Launchballer 21:26, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
- Among the new hooks, ALT4 is probably the best option, although the thing about his death still needs to be resolved in the article before the nomination can be approved. Admittedly this could raise OR or SYNTH issues so resolving this might be difficult, but per WP:DYKCOMPLETE it's regrettably necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- I see. Given the circumstances I wonder if a broader discussion of some kind would be needed here as it seems to be an unusual case on whether or not he's actually still alive, if the hook fact is accurate, and the link you gave. At the very least, I don't think the new hook could proceed as-is at the moment. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- I saw a comment on Steve Hoffman's forums that suggested that he died in the late 1970s, so it's possible that someone hit '0' when they meant '9'. I don't think conjecture's good enough for a potential BLP though.--Launchballer 01:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- My research says he is much better known as Tribe than Kingston but it might be worth a discussion to confirm this.
- I've added a link to the Jamaica Observer within the article saying that he died. I maintain that those forum posts don't constitute due weight, but the article I've added should at least confirm his death.--Launchballer 15:21, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
Okay, that should do it. I don't have access to the British Black Gospel source, but I assume that's the reference for the blouse fact. The article should be good to go now as my main concern has been resolved. Only ALT4 is approved, the other hooks are struck. I only have one minor issue but this shouldn't really affect the nomination: since The Soul Seekers do not have an article, I wonder if they could be deleted from the hook, but I will leave that decision to the promoter. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:02, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
