Template:Did you know nominations/The Aachen Memorandum
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Montanabw(talk) 21:18, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
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The Aachen Memorandum
[edit]... that a printed source reports that Michael Gove, Matthew d'Ancona and Iain Duncan-Smith were among those arrested in 2016 as members of an Anti-Federalist Movement?
- Reviewed: High Street (IND Eighth Avenue Line)
Created by Smerus (talk). Self-nominated at 14:32, 4 July 2016 (UTC).
- Referring to this novel as a "printed source" is out of bounds for a hook. I'm sure there are clever ways to intrigue the reader, but this isn't it. EEng 04:41, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- OK then, here's ALT1 :
... that The Aachen Memorandum reports that Michael Gove, Matthew d'Ancona and Iain Duncan-Smith were among those arrested in 2016 as members of an Anti-Federalist Movement?- Smerus (talk) 06:40, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- Look, I'm the last person to throw cold water on a winking hook, but we there's no hint in there by which the reader will be clued in that this is a fictional "report" of actual LPs being arrested. (If the hook said "were arrested in 2017" that would be different, IMO.) You need to say (or imply, somehow) that this is fiction -- again IMO. EEng 15:18, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- Well I think you're being a bit too tough now; after all the italics signify something is going on - and the hook is literally true. Your point about '2017' [had it been the case] is interesting, as then the hook would not be as ambiguous - but it might also lose some of its pulling power. Seems to me ALT1 meets the profile of a 'winking' hook acceptably but I'd be glad to see other editors' opinions -@Cwmhiraeth:, @The Rambling Man:, @Gerda Arendt:, @The C of E:, @Gatoclass: - you all participated and took different sides in a recent not dissimilar discussion....- Smerus (talk) 15:51, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- I agree with EEng that stating this in a way that does not clearly identify it as counterfactual within the hook itself is a BLP violation. —David Eppstein (talk) 16:09, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- Well I think you're being a bit too tough now; after all the italics signify something is going on - and the hook is literally true. Your point about '2017' [had it been the case] is interesting, as then the hook would not be as ambiguous - but it might also lose some of its pulling power. Seems to me ALT1 meets the profile of a 'winking' hook acceptably but I'd be glad to see other editors' opinions -@Cwmhiraeth:, @The Rambling Man:, @Gerda Arendt:, @The C of E:, @Gatoclass: - you all participated and took different sides in a recent not dissimilar discussion....- Smerus (talk) 15:51, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- Look, I'm the last person to throw cold water on a winking hook, but we there's no hint in there by which the reader will be clued in that this is a fictional "report" of actual LPs being arrested. (If the hook said "were arrested in 2017" that would be different, IMO.) You need to say (or imply, somehow) that this is fiction -- again IMO. EEng 15:18, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- OK then, here's ALT1 :
Mendelssohn is dead, which makes all the difference, and the grandiosity and oddity of "recommending The Destruction of Jerusalem" is just enough to put the reader on alert. You could say,
- ALT2
... that in the fictional Aachen Memorandum Michael Gove, Matthew d'Ancona and Iain Duncan-Smith get arrested in 2016 as members of an Anti-Federalist Movement?
Another possibility is to introduce additional material signaling this is fiction, though I'd be interested to hear from others whether they think this is enough to overcome the BLP problem (I think it is):
- ALT3
... that in The Aachen Memorandum William Mountbatten-Windsor (son of the late Charles III of the United Kingdom) is king of New Zealand and Michael Gove, Matthew d'Ancona and Iain Duncan-Smith get arrested as members of an Anti-Federalist Movement?
The present tense also helps signal that this is a fictional narrative. EEng 20:46, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- Where shall I send my bill? EEng 22:36, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
Hold on. ALT3 is (by my count) 245 characters long, well past the 200-character limit. Can we get something like it that meets the hook length requirement? —David Eppstein (talk) 23:54, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- Those darned royals and their drawn-out names and styles!
- ALT3A
... that in The Aachen Memorandum William Mountbatten-Windsor (son of Charles III) is king of New Zealand and Michael Gove, Matthew d'Ancona and Iain Duncan-Smith belong to an Anti-Federalist Movement?
- ALT3A
- (197) EEng 00:36, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
- Those darned royals and their drawn-out names and styles!
- Where shall I send my bill? EEng 22:36, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- BUT!!!! You miss out the arrest, which is the most fun - and in the book it's 'the' (not 'an') Anti-Federalist Movement....therefore, adieu Matthew d'Ancona and.....
- ALT3B ... that in The Aachen Memorandum, William Mountbatten-Windsor (son of Charles III) is king of New Zealand, and Michael Gove and Iain Duncan-Smith are arrested as members of the Anti-Federalist Movement?-Smerus (talk) 08:14, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:18, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
I think the hook makes it sufficiently clear that we are dealing with a fictional subject here. The article is long enough and new enough. The ALT3B hook is just short enough, and the hook facts have inline citations referenced back to the book itself. The article is neutral and the spot checks I made did not disclose any copyright issues. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:03, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
