Template:Did you know nominations/Scorpio (Dennis Coffey song)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by sstflyer 09:24, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
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Scorpio (Dennis Coffey song)
[edit]- ... that Dennis Coffey's "Scorpio" has been sampled by numerous hip-hop artists?
- Comment: I am struggling to find a particularly interesting hook.
Created by Launchballer (talk). Self-nominated at 23:43, 21 July 2015 (UTC).
Full review needed now that a QPQ has been submitted. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:03, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
This looks good to go. Article was created on the date of submission and the article is over 1500 characters. The author simply cites to the songs in which "Scorpio" is sampled as authority for the fact that the songs contain the sample. I think this complies with WP:RS guidelines, and I am going to AGF that the information is accurate (I am not familiar with all of the songs). Otherwise, everything is within policy, and QPQ is satisfied. I think the suggested hook is fairly interesting, but here is my suggestion for another potentially interesting hook:
- ALT1:... that Public Enemy, Queen Latifah, LL Cool J, Young MC, House of Pain, and Mark Ronson have all sampled Dennis Coffey's "Scorpio"?
- Or, alternatively:
- ALT2:... that Public Enemy, Queen Latifah, LL Cool J, Young MC, House of Pain, and Mark Ronson all sample the same song?
- Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 19:02, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
- ALT3 ... that Public Enemy, Queen Latifah, LL Cool J, Young MC, Geto Boys, Lord Finesse, House of Pain, and Mark Ronson have all sampled Dennis Coffey's "Scorpio"? You aren't allowed to approve your own hook, and I believe in completeness.--Launchballer 20:13, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't believe it is enough to merely cite each of the songs that do the sampling, since that's basically OR (and what does "Media notes" mean?); either a statement is needed from one of the artists (primary source) saying that the sampling occurred, or a secondary source noting the sampling, especially when it's being mentioned in all of the hooks. I also think that the article, while technically long enough, says far too little about the actual song. Only 315 unique prose characters talk about the song itself: its release, composition, and charting (almost 400 if you include the material duplicated in lede and body), and that just isn't enough for DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:02, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
- Have you ever bought a CD before? Most if not all CDs contain liner notes, which the template calls media notes (an American term perhaps? I'm English) with information about each song on the album; a bad CD will just have the writer, label and year, whereas a quality studio album goes into detail on each record. The notes for songs that sample must contain text to the effect of "Contains/Interpolates samples from Scorpio performed by Dennis Coffey" for example. They tend to be significantly more reliable than the usual online sources for the fact, such as Discogs and WhoSampled, but I will have another look.--Launchballer 23:10, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
- ALT3 ... that Public Enemy, Queen Latifah, LL Cool J, Young MC, Geto Boys, Lord Finesse, House of Pain, and Mark Ronson have all sampled Dennis Coffey's "Scorpio"? You aren't allowed to approve your own hook, and I believe in completeness.--Launchballer 20:13, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: BlueMoonset, I also had the same concerns about WP:OR at first. If the liner notes for each of these songs do, in fact, provide information about music that has been sampled in the track, then I think the liner notes are a reliable primary source. I am really not familiar with musical scholarship, but I would think that some samples are self evident; for example, anyone who listens to "Touch the Sky" can tell you that is samples Curtis Mayfield's "Move On Up". However, if there is an extra inferential step involved in determining whether a song has been sampled, then you may run into problems with OR and SYNTH.
- Again, I am really not too familiar with the subject, and I simply assumed good faith in my initial review that the existence of the sample was self evident. In any case, I am happy to defer to someone more knowledgeable than myself in these matters. However, if the issues with sourcing are resolved, I like ALT3. Also, Scorpio (song) redirects to Scorpio (Trax song) -- I'm not sure if one song is particularly more notable than another, but you may want to consider creating a disambiguation page per WP:MULTIDABS ("if an ambiguous term has no primary topic, then that term needs to lead to a disambiguation page"). -- Notecardforfree (talk) 12:05, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
- Hmm. Less sourced content on that article than sourced content that pertains to the song on this article, no reliable sources on the first 100 Google results, first edited by The TRAX879. This is more notable than that; pencil in your diary this time next week when its AfD ends and this can be moved to Scorpio (song).--Launchballer 13:26, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
- Again, I am really not too familiar with the subject, and I simply assumed good faith in my initial review that the existence of the sample was self evident. In any case, I am happy to defer to someone more knowledgeable than myself in these matters. However, if the issues with sourcing are resolved, I like ALT3. Also, Scorpio (song) redirects to Scorpio (Trax song) -- I'm not sure if one song is particularly more notable than another, but you may want to consider creating a disambiguation page per WP:MULTIDABS ("if an ambiguous term has no primary topic, then that term needs to lead to a disambiguation page"). -- Notecardforfree (talk) 12:05, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
- It looks like Launchballer has added additional information in the article about the song itself. However, I think this review could use a fresh set of eyes to do a new review and comment on the sufficiency of the sources. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 16:17, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
On it. — LlywelynII 09:21, 20 September 2015 (UTC) QPQ done; new at time of submission; long enough [2400 eligible chars.]; decent sourcing: we've got a template for AllMusic so I assume it's acceptable and assuming good faith on the liner notes (Are they online anywhere that you could link?); earwig finds no copyvio. Original hook better than the laundry lists: good to go, although I'd be in favor of specifying—per the AllMusic review—that what gets sampled is the drum break.
If the article is being moved, that should happen before it goes to the front page, though. Similarly, the article should note that the singles (at least per YouTube: needs a source) were credited to Dennis Coffey and the Detroit Guitar Band, not Dennis Coffee himself. (Evolution, however, was Dennis Coffee and that is already sourced.)
Side note: For now-unknown songs like this, there should be a link to the YouTube vid for the song but I assume there's a policy against that somewhere. Similarly, it's no reason to hold up a DYK nomination (BlueMoonset's letting the perfect be the enemy of the good above: there's nothing remotely rule bending about the article sourcing the samples and that counting towards its character limit), but the article could be expanded: There's more and better treatment in the NPR article on the song that would improve the article and would've made for a better hook. This interview also goes into more detail about the song. Finally, don't emend your sources to misspell words in their titles: NPR is an American outfit which utilizes American spellings. — LlywelynII 09:51, 20 September 2015 (UTC)