Template:Did you know nominations/Sainte-Anne Hospital Center
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by BlueMoonset (talk) 19:07, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Insufficient inline source citations per DYK rules; closing as unsuccessful.
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Sainte-Anne Hospital Center
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Sainte-Anne hospital in a 1672 site plan
- ... that Sainte-Anne Hospital Center, which in the 17th century was a farm worked by insane patients, is today a modern hospital in Paris specializing in psychiatry, neurology, neurosurgery, neuroimaging, and addiction?
- ALT1: ... that antipsychotic properties of the drug chlorpromazine were discovered at Sainte-Anne Hospital Center in Paris in 1952?
Created by Robert K S (talk). Self-nominated at 07:26, 8 February 2018 (UTC).
Substantial article, but would need many more inline citations. The rule of thumb says one inline citation per paragraph. I also wonder about the name, which is a mixture of French and English. We should not invent names, - is there an English source for this name? If not, perhaps better stick with the French. Should Centre be capital? - I like the original hook much better, referring to the unique history. I delinked Paris, - current capitals and countries are typically not linked. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:17, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
- There is no official English rendering of the name of this hospital. In most of the English-language literature it is referred to as "Sainte-Anne Hospital" but that is with reference to the institution as it existed in the 1950s, e.g., before it took on its modern name including the word "Center". In the French version of the name, Centre would not be capitalized unless at the start of a sentence (similar to rue, which is always rendered capitalized in English but never in French). To switch from "Sainte-Anne" to "Saint Anne" or "St. Anne" would I believe be one step too far as it would corrupt the proper-noun portion of the name of the institution. Given all of the above I believe that "Sainte-Anne Hospital Center" should be the preferred way to refer to the present-day incarnation of the institution in English. (Google shows many usages of this rendering of the name. [1]) Robert K S (talk) 19:32, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
- Taken, now refs please ;) - The image is licensed but doesn't show too well in that size. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
- Robert K S, Gerda Arendt, it's been a month and a half since this was nominated and the above posts made. Where do the article and nomination currently stand? BlueMoonset (talk) 03:15, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
- In my opinion the article is in as good shape as any translated article posted to DYK and is ready for posting. A DYK article is not intended to be a Good Article. To the contrary, DYK posting is designed not only as trivia to interest Main Page readers but as a way of attracting editors to new articles that could use improvement. I don't think there are any significant problems with sourcing in the article overall; there are plenty of references and at most what Gerda seems to want is to have the sources duplicated as footnotes all over the page. That's fine, it can be done, but I will not be expending the work to do it just to have this article become a DYK article, because that is busywork. Advance the article to DYK status or don't, but don't exclude it on the basis that it's not, by some standards, in perfect shape yet, because rewarding perfect articles is not the point of DYK. Robert K S (talk) 18:53, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sadly, it's not so much your opinion that counts but DYK rules, and they request inline citations. My suggestion: write a short article with such referencing on something related, - a doctor, an architect, find something, - and mention the hospital in a hook for that something. - I had the same situation - translated, no inline citations - with my second article, Siegfried Palm, in 2009. I didn't rest until I had it referenced ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Gerda may want to review DYK eligibility criteria, which does not require inline citations for every single statement in the article, but rather, only that the facts in the hook be so cited. Robert K S (talk) 19:05, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- It says there that we have Supplementary guidelines, which request under D2: "The article in general should use inline, cited sources. A rule of thumb is one inline citation per paragraph, excluding the lead, plot summaries, and paragraphs which summarize other cited content." Please also see D3 and further. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:19, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Cool. "Should" is a great word. But it doesn't mean "must, in order to qualify for DYK promotion". Let's not forget the purposes of DYK, which are not the same as Good Article or Featured Article. Robert K S (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
Robert K S, your idea of what makes a DYK article does not jibe with the actual DYK criteria, as reviewers have been trying to tell you in this nomination and elsewhere. This isn't even close to GA quality, so I'm not sure why you're invoking that process here, unless it's that becoming a GA is an alternative path to qualify for DYK. The article has a dearth of inline source citations; indeed, it is so sparsely cited (only four of nineteen paragraphs have citations) that no knowledgeable DYK reviewer would pass it. (I've just added a template to the article indicating that more citations are needed.) BlueMoonset (talk) 22:20, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Relax. This isn't personal. Robert K S (talk) 14:54, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Cool. "Should" is a great word. But it doesn't mean "must, in order to qualify for DYK promotion". Let's not forget the purposes of DYK, which are not the same as Good Article or Featured Article. Robert K S (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- It says there that we have Supplementary guidelines, which request under D2: "The article in general should use inline, cited sources. A rule of thumb is one inline citation per paragraph, excluding the lead, plot summaries, and paragraphs which summarize other cited content." Please also see D3 and further. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:19, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Gerda may want to review DYK eligibility criteria, which does not require inline citations for every single statement in the article, but rather, only that the facts in the hook be so cited. Robert K S (talk) 19:05, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sadly, it's not so much your opinion that counts but DYK rules, and they request inline citations. My suggestion: write a short article with such referencing on something related, - a doctor, an architect, find something, - and mention the hospital in a hook for that something. - I had the same situation - translated, no inline citations - with my second article, Siegfried Palm, in 2009. I didn't rest until I had it referenced ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Taken, now refs please ;) - The image is licensed but doesn't show too well in that size. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
- There is no official English rendering of the name of this hospital. In most of the English-language literature it is referred to as "Sainte-Anne Hospital" but that is with reference to the institution as it existed in the 1950s, e.g., before it took on its modern name including the word "Center". In the French version of the name, Centre would not be capitalized unless at the start of a sentence (similar to rue, which is always rendered capitalized in English but never in French). To switch from "Sainte-Anne" to "Saint Anne" or "St. Anne" would I believe be one step too far as it would corrupt the proper-noun portion of the name of the institution. Given all of the above I believe that "Sainte-Anne Hospital Center" should be the preferred way to refer to the present-day incarnation of the institution in English. (Google shows many usages of this rendering of the name. [1]) Robert K S (talk) 19:32, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
It has been another seven days without any further edits to the article to improve the inline source citations as required for DYK. Marking nomination for closure as unsuccessful, though if the needed citations are added before this closes, the review can continue. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:43, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
