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Template:Did you know nominations/SS Chester A. Congdon

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 21:58, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

SS Chester A. Congdon

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Chester A. Congdon's wreck
Chester A. Congdon's wreck

Improved to Good Article status by GreatLakesShips (talk). Self-nominated at 19:12, 23 March 2022 (UTC).

  • : Recently passed GA, hook is well sourced, and reasonably interesting from a strong article. ps tweaked the hook it a bit. Ceoil (talk) 03:06, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
  • @Ceoil: @GreatLakesShips: Thank you for the nom and the review. The image is free but would not show clearly as a thumbnail. I have cropped it for you - it's up to you to decide whether that's an improvement. I'm assuming that that is the bow section, since it has the bridge and the eye of the ship (for bow anchor chain). I have also made ALT0 and ALT1 separately visible, so that other editors can follow events on this template. If you no longer want ALT0, you can strike it out, using <s></s>. Storye book (talk) 11:00, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

@Storye book: The cropped image looks better for the main page than the one included in the article. GreatLakesShips 🤘 (talk - contribs) 12:24, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

  • Thank you, GreatLakesShips for your input. At DYK, cropped versions of images which already feature on the article page are permitted, so no problem there. Storye book (talk) 17:12, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
  • BlueMoonset Please remove the original/top image from this template, and replace it with the cropped image? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 17:12, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
  • As requested, I have replaced the original image with the cropped one; DYK does indeed allow cropped versions of images in the nominated article to be used instead of the original one. However, since the approved hook, ALT1, was created by reviewer Ceoil and contains a new fact that wasn't in the ALT0 hook, a new reviewer is needed. In addition, there is no actual review of the nominated article above beyond "Recently passed GA" and "strong article"; a review of all the "within policy" DYK criteria, from sourcing to copyvio check to neutrality, must be done by the DYK reviewer since GA reviewers do sometimes miss things. Storye book, might you be interested in checking ALT1 specifically and also these other aspects of the article, unless Ceoil did check them but didn't mention doing so in their original review. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:56, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
  • I read the GA review, made a number of edits to the article as was reading through, and based the revisions to the hook on the sourced text. Will take another look now re copyvio, hold on. Ceoil (talk) 21:02, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
  • Earwig gives 16.7%. The changes to the hook were matters of clarity and style rather than fact (eg had no idea what Isle Royale was, but BlueMoonset, I take your point; should have been more explicit. Any suggestions I would have made at GA, I just made via direct edits. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Re hook, would tweak further,and clarify that "largest" is the measure of the financial loss. See here at nps.gov. Ceoil (talk) 21:18, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
By largest, I meant the size of the ship. GreatLakesShips 🤘 (talk - contribs) 23:52, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Not a deal breaker, but I prefer making the hook about the financial loss. A huge ship could also be only slightly damaged. Ceoil (talk) 01:28, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
@Ceoil: Sorry, I misread your comment. In that case, maybe, "... that in 1918, the freighter Chester A. Congdon (pictured) became the largest financial loss on the Great Lakes?" would be more suitable. GreatLakesShips 🤘 (talk - contribs) 01:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, works for me, and thanks. Ceoil (talk) 02:02, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
@Ceoil: I've struck off ALT1. Do need another reviewer for ALT2? GreatLakesShips 🤘 (talk - contribs) 02:09, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
Should be ALT3: "... that the shipwreck of Chester A. Congdon (pictured) became the largest such financial loss to date on the Great Lakes?"
@Ceoil: Or maybe ALT4: ... that the freighter Chester A. Congdon (pictured) became the largest financial loss to date on the Great Lakes when she wrecked in 1918?
And yes, better to wait a day or two for another reviewer for the hook. Ceoil (talk) 02:18, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
  • I'm happy to review hooks, but I think there may be hooks above which might be useful, but are not labelled as ALTs. I have labelled the extra ones as ALTs 3 and 4 myself, but please (anyone) strike them out if they are not wanted. Storye book (talk) 10:37, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset: @Ceoil: @GreatLakesShips: ALT2 is fine, and is supported by the citation given above (at nps.gov), but I cannot see that ref. next to the hook fact in the article. ALT3 does not work, because it lacks a date to put the statement in time-context. ALT 4 is better than ALT2 because it better clarifies the date-context. That is, ALT4 makes it quite clear that in 1918 it was the greatest financial loss to date (but that may not be the case today). So in my opinion, ALT4 is the best hook, but it needs the nps.gov citation in the article. Storye book (talk) 10:33, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
  • Just to confirm (as requested above by BlueMoonset): The article is new enough (GA date 19 March 2022) and long enough, and is fully sourced and neutral. It is plagiarism-free. Hook facts for ALT4 are cited alongside the hook in the article. The image is free, used in the article (as the original of the cropped version), and clear. The QPQ is done, although minimal. There is one slight language anomaly: in respect of the hatches description, the word "wide" has been used, where the source says "center", so that "wide" does not make sense to me. That issue is possibly caused by rephrasing to avoid plagiarism, which is fair enough, but sometimes quotation and citation is the best solution. I have done a minor copyedit to clarify language in other respects. Storye book (talk) 07:19, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
  • Thank you, GreatLakesShips for correcting the "centers" issue. I am not the primary reviewer here, but if I were, I would give the green tick now. Storye book (talk) 15:54, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your patience with the above confirmatory review, Ceoil. Where a nom attracts discussion, it speeds things up to cover all bases and tie up loose ends. Would you be happy to give the green tick now? Storye book (talk) 15:54, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
  • Sound Storye book, I understand now the reasons for spelling out the criteria for GTG - would normally do that, this was my first run through a recent GA, and lessons learned. Be good. Ceoil (talk) 00:07, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Thank you, Ceoil. Green tick for ALT4 on behalf of Ceoil and myself. Storye book (talk) 08:32, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

ALT4 to T:DYK/P2 without image

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