The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that Rudolf Szepessy-Sokoll(pictured) scored his first victory during what has been called history's first strategic bombing raid? Source: O'Connor, Martin (1994). Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire 1914 - 1918. Flying Machines Press. ISBN 0-9637110-1-6, ISBN 978-0-9637110-1-4, pp. 217, 329. "On 14 February 1916, Szepessy-Sokoll participated in what could be called the first strategic bombing mission in history....one Italian Caudron two-seater was downed by the combined fire of three of the Austro-Hungarian aircraft, Szepessy-Sokoll's included." (p. 217) Victory list on (p. 329) confirms it was his first victory.
ALT1: ... that Rudolf Szepessy-Sokoll(pictured) shot down a pair of Macchi L.3seaplanes to become a flying ace? Source: As above, O'Connor. (p. 218) "On November 15, 1917, Szepessy-Sokoll became an ace." Victory list on (p. 329) confirms that the victims were Macchi L.3 seaplanes.
Comment: Another "canvas falcon" bio from the era of silk scarves in the slipstream and blood in the cockpit.
Created by Georgejdorner (talk). Self-nominated at 07:16, 3 December 2021 (UTC).
I have struck the submitted QPQ review as being both inadequate and an inappropriate fail. Please supply a complete review covering all the DYK criteria as a QPQ for this nomination. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:17, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
I have a QPQ in progress.Georgejdorner (talk) 03:57, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Is it possible to use caption "A Macchi M.3 converted for civilian use." as seen in article? Present caption might deceive the reader about the appearance of military Macchi M.3s.Georgejdorner (talk) 04:02, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Overall: A decent, clear article - and quite fascinating, considering the fragile kites that they had in those days. Neutrality is a complex matter when you're dealing with genuine heroes, because the hero is usually either just gritting his teeth and getting on with the job, or he's a crazy idiot. But the crazy idiot airmen usually got culled straight after training, when celebrating their first hedge-hopping, bridge-ducking solo flight, and if they survived that, then their achievements tended to be a bit scattershot with a few great moments maybe. The fact remains that the heroism will always be mostly in the eye of the beholder, because we want heroes - but these people were probably terrified while doing their great acts, and had this one survived he would not necessarily have lived the rest of his life sober, having seen so many horrible deaths. So thank you for dealing with the neutrality so carefully.
I am hesitating about the picture you have chosen, because it's not very clickbaitey, and it doesn't relate directly to Szepessy-Sokoll - it's not his plane and it's not him. Why not use the picture of him from the article? He has quite a striking appearance in his uniform, the pic is free, and it should work as a thumbnail? That's my only niggle; otherwise the nom is fine. Storye book (talk) 10:26, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
I had not thought of using that photo as the picture, but I must agree it is striking because of the hussar uniform. I think it is an inspired choice to replace the suggested photo.. Great suggestion, Storye.Georgejdorner (talk) 17:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
@Georgejdorner: Thank you for agreeing to the portrait picture. Both hooks are fine, but I prefer ALT0 because being "history's first" is attention-grabbing. This nom is good to go, now.
Admin, please substitute the portrait picture for the aeroplane picture. Thank you. Storye book (talk) 17:40, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Dispute the claim of first strategic bombing almost certainly fails - there were a number of strategic attacks before this one. Eg the Royal Navy air attacks on the Zeppelin sheds, Zeppelins bombing British ports, and so forth. GraemeLeggett (talk) 10:32, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, GraemeLeggett, well spotted, you are correct. I have struck ALT0. So now this is good to go, with ALT1. Storye book (talk) 11:06, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
I realized that claim might be suspect--hence the wording of the hook "has been called". The hook does not make a definitive claim. Superlatives are tricky.Georgejdorner (talk) 14:41, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
@admin: still good to go with ALT1 (the previous comment by Georgejdorner refers to ALT0 which was already struck out). Storye book (talk) 15:30, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
Of course, I was obviously referring to the struck-out ALT, and was agreeing with Mr. Leggett. Indeed, the very slippery definition of "strategic"...well, no need to thrash that about.Georgejdorner (talk) 20:54, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
I have struck the submitted QPQ review as being both inadequate and an inappropriate fail. Please supply a complete review covering all the DYK criteria as a QPQ for this nomination. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:17, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
A decent, clear article - and quite fascinating, considering the fragile kites that they had in those days. Neutrality is a complex matter when you're dealing with genuine heroes, because the hero is usually either just gritting his teeth and getting on with the job, or he's a crazy idiot. But the crazy idiot airmen usually got culled straight after training, when celebrating their first hedge-hopping, bridge-ducking solo flight, and if they survived that, then their achievements tended to be a bit scattershot with a few great moments maybe. The fact remains that the heroism will always be mostly in the eye of the beholder, because we want heroes - but these people were probably terrified while doing their great acts, and had this one survived he would not necessarily have lived the rest of his life sober, having seen so many horrible deaths. So thank you for dealing with the neutrality so carefully.
Thank you, GraemeLeggett, well spotted, you are correct. I have struck ALT0. So now this is good to go, with ALT1. Storye book (talk) 11:06, 2 January 2022 (UTC)