Template:Did you know nominations/Rudolf Sellner

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:32, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Rudolf Sellner

(

• Back to T:TDYK
• Article history

)

• ... that Rudolf Sellner, the new general manager of the Deutsche Oper Berlin, opened the house in 1861 1961 with a Mozart opera staged by his predecessor, his premiere of Klebe's Alkmene, and Aida directed by Wieland Wagner? Source: [1]

• Reviewed: to come Grey cuckooshrike
• Comment: sensational, + a few weeks after The Wall was buikt, to make it even trickier logistics, beginning on 24 September, which would be the best day for this

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 10:19, 8 August 2018 (UTC).

• This article is new enough and long enough. It is neutral and free from copyright problems as far as I can tell. The proposed hook is too long at 215 characters, and I think you mean 1961 anyway. What is a "dramaturge"? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the review! Linked the job.

ALT1: ... that after the Berlin Wall was built, Rudolf Sellner opened the Deutsche Oper Berlin with a Mozart opera staged by Carl Ebert, his premiere of Klebe's Alkmene, and Aida staged by Wieland Wagner?

The Berlin Wall is not mentioned in the article. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

It is now, - sorry, I was almost sure I added it, but obviously not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:04, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Approving ALT1, although I think it tries to stuff too many facts into the hook. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:25, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote this, but it does seem cluttered. How about:
• ALT2: ... that despite logistical challenges posed by the newly-built Berlin Wall, Rudolf Sellner opened the Deutsche Oper Berlin with Don Giovanni, a premiere of Alkmene, and Aida? Yoninah (talk)

I'd rather drop the Wall thing, but mention that he gave two works to colleagues, and the composer of Alkmene which readers will not know. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:19, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

• @Gerda Arendt: OK, so this is what you want?
• ALT3: ... that Rudolf Sellner opened the Deutsche Oper Berlin in 1961 with a Mozart opera staged by Carl Ebert, the world premiere of Klebe's Alkmene, and Aida staged by Wieland Wagner? Yoninah (talk) 20:41, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

What I wanted is the original hook, saying that he was new as director (while ALT3 only implies that he was director), that he was polite and gave the first to his predecessor, and that he staged Alkmene, - only that was too long.

ALT4: ... that Rudolf Sellner opened the Deutsche Oper Berlin in 1961 with a Mozart opera staged by his predecessor, then his premiere of Klebe's Alkmene, and Aida staged by Wieland Wagner? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:12, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

• Thank you. ALT4 looks good. Restoring tick per Cwmhiraeth's review. Yoninah (talk) 08:27, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

• I pulled this from prep because the hook wording at present can be confusing to readers. As I mentioned at WT:DYK, the hook right now is too busy and focuses on too many aspects instead of maintaining focus. It would probably be better to just mention one aspect of the original hook (i.e. focusing on Don Giovanni) instead. The current hook may work in some form (perhaps a rephrase can do the trick), but not in its current state. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:42, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Don Giovanni alone is boring. His feat was to have three in a row, much emphasis given to that in the obituary by his successor. The balance between Mozart - Klebe - Verdi is as important as the balance of Ebert - Sellner - Wagner. Please don't miss in the process to shorten that Richard Wagner's grandson was won to stage Verdi ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:03, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

How about

ALT5: ... that Rudolf Sellner, general manager of the Deutsche Oper Berlin, engaged Richard Wagner's grandson to stage a Verdi opera? Jmar67 (talk) 19:27, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Seems better considering Wagner and Verdi are both two of the biggest names in opera, and it's interesting to see they can be linked many years later. Your thoughts Gerda on Jmar67's proposal? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 01:06, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Gerda has mentioned at WT:DYK that she is not exactly a fan of Jmar67's hook, however she has stated that she will not oppose other hook suggestions or ALT5 being approved. As such, I am approving ALT5 for the reasons I mentioned above. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 06:22, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

(ec) Don't ask me, please. - At least spare me links to Wagner and Verdi.

ALT6: ... that Rudolf Sellner engaged Richard Wagner's grandson to stage a Verdi opera as part of the opening of the Deutsche Oper Berlin?

That works too, I suppose. My original tick now applies to ALT6 too. Though the reason for the links I suppose is to appeal to people not familiar with opera, which is likely the majority of reasons. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 06:40, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Please add a tick icon. (Readers wo don't care about opera are not likely to enjoy the article, I'm afraid.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:49, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

As for your statement, it's possible for non-opera fans to enjoy an opera-related hook, if an interesting topic could be highlighted. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 06:53, 12 September 2018 (UTC)