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Template:Did you know nominations/Ron Ball

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 20:59, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Ron Ball

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Created/expanded by Crookesmoor (talk), Paul MacDermott (talk) (disclaimer). Nominated by Paul MacDermott (talk) (disclaimer) at 21:40, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

  • Expansion checks out; DYKcheck places the date it started as the 4th so it should perhaps be moved there. Alt1 is supported by the ref to a local paper but appears incorrect; there are several smaller Scottish forces.[1] It does seem true for England as of 31 March 2012[2], but the article needs to reference something reliable on the point. The main hook appears misleading; I read the hook as all the other independent candidates were ex-police officers, but the source actually states some were former members of the abolished police authorities. It is supported by another local newspaper article; in view of the unreliability of local newspapers as a source, a more reliable reference for this would be very desirable, particularly as it could be considered in a negative light. Espresso Addict (talk) 14:12, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Sadly, Stratford Herald seems to be as good as it gets for the main hook just now, and there are no other refs to support Alt1. Coventry Telegraph tends to be quite reliable though, but it's unclear if they mean the UK or England (Scotland not having had these elections, of course). Looking into that there seem to be several theories about the country's smallest police force. Our article on Warwickshire Police says it is second to City of London Police in terms of its smallness. Anyway, how about ALT 2: "... that before he was elected as the Police and Crime Commissioner for Warwickshire, Ron Ball worked as an airline pilot?" There are plenty of sources (both local and national) for that. Paul MacDermott (talk) 14:46, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  • It's a shame about sourcing for the main hook (as I think it's the most interesting) but I do think the BLP policy needs to be adhered to carefully for hooks which could conceivably be read negatively. Re Alt1, I'd be happy to go with smallest police force in England based on the March 2012 government stats I linked above, as I don't see it as original research to eyeball a list for the smallest member, and 'by number of police officers' seems the usual ranking; however others might be more strict there. (Our articles on police force numbers and Warwickshire Police both seem out of date.) Until Scotland devolves from the union, the UK certainly isn't correct! Alt2 is currently sourced to what looks to be his website, but if you could provide third-party sourcing that would be fine; given that it was on his candidate website, I think we could rely on local newspapers here if necessary without BLP concerns. Espresso Addict (talk) 15:21, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  • ok, reffed as much as I can for his bio. There's a BBC ref for his decision to leave aviation to stand for office, and a Coventry Telegraph source mentioning the length of his career with BA. Also found his election statement which is useful as a source elsewhere in the article. I must confess I wasn't sure whether to add this to the 4 December or 6 December section so went for the latter as it was the date on which the expansion was completed, but I'm happy to move it. Paul MacDermott (talk) 16:12, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  • for Alt2 only. I am striking the earlier suggestions to avoid confusion. Another possibility, if this is deemed too dull, might be to go with the fact he beat an ex-minister to win, which is sourced to the BBC. It should be moved to 4 December when the expansion started. Espresso Addict (talk) 16:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  • for Alt3 (I've added a citation to the BBC news reference that covers this hook). On closer inspection of the table in [3], it's a bit misleading and I think City of London might still be smaller by at least one metric, so Alt1 is probably best avoided. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
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