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Template:Did you know nominations/Roger Farmer (American football)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 talk 14:29, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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Roger Farmer (American football)

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  • ... that Roger Farmer was the first NFL player from Barbados?
Improved to Good Article status by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 257 past nominations.

BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC).

  • Starting review. Updates to follow. Ktin (talk) 15:22, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article meets eligibility criteria. Recently promoted to GA status. No issues with tone / neutrality nor with plagiarism. Hook is reasonably attractive. Sourced to a NFL record sheet / database. At some point I thought DYK frowned upon hooks like "the first x from y". But, I am not able to find that discussion. Nevertheless, I am happy to mark this hook approved. That said, if the nominator wants to attempt a different hook, I am available for a review. Handing this back to the nominator. QPQ done. Ktin (talk) 15:39, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

This hook fails the interestingness check in my view. Someone is going to be the first NFL player from Barbados, and so all this is really telling me is that it's a guy named Roger Farmer; there's zero element of surprise. Sdkb talk 04:11, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
Will see if I can come up with an alt hook tomorrow. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
Could do something like: ALT1 ... that Roger Farmer was among the first two NFL players to come from his high school, to come from his college, and to come from his country? (refs 14/15/16) BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
Might be me, but, this is hard to follow as a statement and I personally don't think it is adding to the 'interestingness'. Ktin (talk) 04:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
There have also been several of these "first NFL player from X" hooks proposed lately. Given the recent pushback against "first" hooks, it might be safer to go with a completely different angle here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
@Ktin, Narutolovehinata5, and Sdkb: Maybe something like ALT2 ... that Roger Farmer made the NFL despite playing in college for small schools that mainly had "terrible records"? ("he went to Eastern Arizona, which had terrible records both years he was there ... In 1976 ... he came to Baker along with several Arizona recruits from junior colleges ... While Farmer started, Baker had a terrible 1976 record") BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
Yup, that works. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:24, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
@BeanieFan11: There are two things that I am not comfortable with -- 1. What is a "small school"? There is no objective agreed definition and I do not think we should send that phrase to the homepage. 2. Though I see your attempt to add terrible records within double quotes, it still comes across as WP:WIKIVOICE and imo that phrase should not go to the homepage. Ktin (talk) 04:22, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
@Ktin: Would the angle be more acceptable if the quote was attributed rather than being in Wikivoice? Something like:
  • ALT3 ... that Roger Farmer reached the NFL despite playing for schools that the Salina Journal described as having "terrible records"?
  • ALT3a ... that Roger Farmer, the first NFL player from Barbados, reached the league despite playing for schools that the Salina Journal described as having "terrible records"?
Other than that, if more information could be found about his personal life and post-NFL career, maybe a new hook based on that could be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestions, Narutolovehinata5. While definitely an improvement from the prior ones, I am not convinced that this one is good to go to the homepage. We will run afoul of WP:UNDUE if we go by the opinion of this single journal. Our own article on Salina Journal is a stub and does not indicate (at least on first read) why this journal is should be considered an authority on this topic. If a different uninvolved reviewer wants to chime in and pick this up, I will not stand in the way. Ktin (talk) 03:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
Why not ALT4 ... that Roger Farmer, the first NFL player from Barbados, reached the league despite playing for schools that a newspaper described as having "terrible records"? / ALT5 ... that Roger Farmer, the first NFL player from Barbados, reached the league despite playing for low-level schools that a newspaper described as having "terrible records"? (as for 'low-level', he played for Eastern Arizona (about sixth-tier of college football) and Baker (NAIA D-II, which was fifth tier)) – as for the Salina Journal, I don't know why we wouldn't trust the local newspaper for the local sports teams it covers? BeanieFan11 (talk) 03:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
Let's go with ALT4. Striking other hooks to improve readability. Ktin (talk) 05:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
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