Template:Did you know nominations/Rock 'n' Roll Cities

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Article is over two months old. Can be re-nominated when it passes GA.

Rock 'n' Roll Cities

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... that a Rolling Stone critic called the 1986 Kinks single "Rock 'n' Roll Cities" "the sort of desperate, airplay-seeking number that only a radio programmer could love"?

Created by Beatleswhobeachboys (talk). Nominated by Wilhelmina Will (talk) at 02:00, 20 June 2014 (UTC).

Article is sufficiently long, new, and the hook is appropriately referenced and interesting. Not a self-nom so no QPQ needed. Looks good to go. Teemu08 (talk) 15:18, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

The article could use a copyedit to smooth out the grammar. Also, the reviewer should check for close paraphrasing. Yoninah (talk) 23:05, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

@Yoninah: & @Teemu08: I believe the copyediting issue is resolved now. It naturally is not up to me to do the paraphrasing check; that'll have to be done by the reviewer. Spring in Wikipedia is lovely! Just avoid the articles on flowers... (talk) 00:44, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the prose tightening, @Wilhelmina Will:. I do not really see any issues with paraphrasing. I can see @Yoninah: is coming from with his comments, as that Rolling Stone snippet is fairly long. However, since there is a dearth of reviews for the song, I think that an extended quote is OK as it is properly attributed. A blockquote template might be more appropriate if this was a high-level review like FA or GA, but for a DYK I think that it is fine. Teemu08 (talk) 20:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

The prose flows nicely now, but I can't approve this yet because there are are no footnotes in the "Release" section of the article. --Orlady (talk) 02:17, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

@Orlady: "Release" is not without footnotes any longer. I don't see why it's such a big deal; the hook was cited and there were other references used. It shouldn't matter precisely how they're dispersed for something as simple as DYK. There was an old person of Rimini... (talk) 00:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

My apologies. I should have explained myself better in that comment. Item D2 at Wikipedia:Did you know/Supplementary guidelines states D2: The article in general should use inline, cited sources. A rule of thumb is one inline citation per paragraph, excluding the intro, plot summaries, and paragraphs which summarize other cited content. We can't feature an article on the main page when the factual information in one entire subsection of the article has no citations.

Thanks for adding the footnotes. I'll go look at the article again in a little while. --Orlady (talk) 00:47, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

To repeat what's already been said, the article is long enough and new enough. Hook is in the article, is interesting, and is supported by a verified reference citation. I did not find evidence of close paraphrasing. However, I continue to see a a deficiency in sourcing for the article as a whole, including the "Release" section and also the second paragraph of the lede. The footnote that User:Wilhelmina Will added to the "Release" section took care of the first sentence in the section, but the section still had several factual statements of the sort ("same day as...", "first...", "only other...") that demand sourcing, particularly when they relate to the life of a living person. Also, that second paragraph of the lede, which is about Mick Avory (another living person), is completely unsourced. I spent some time looking for sources to support the uncited content. I managed to add two new references to the article, one for part of the "Release" section, but there's too much uncited content remaining for us to overlook. It's clear to me that the article's creator had sources for this content that could be added to the article. They need to be added. --Orlady (talk) 02:16, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

I added a couple of additional citations (in the parts about Mick Avory and the release of the single,) if that helps any. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 14:16, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
@Orlady: (As per Beatleswhobeachboys' modification) Nudge, nudge! ;) There was an old person of Rimini... (talk) 17:31, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but... I'm not an expert at perusing websites like rateyourmusic.com, but I don't see how http://rateyourmusic.com/release/single/the_kinks/living_on_a_thin_line___sold_me_out/ can support the statement that this single was the first single written by Dave Davies and that he had only one other Kinks track that was an A-side. Facts like that one that tell of a living person's "only" accomplishments need to be supported. I'm sure that this fact is documented in a book or a published interview with Dave Davies. --Orlady (talk) 22:33, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

@Orlady: I've spent a lot of time these past few weeks trying to find a book/interview as suggested, and I've found nothing satisfactory. Frankly, I don't see why this needs to be supported anyway; one only has to look at the writing credits of other Kinks songs in order to tell whether it's true or not. Personally, you've dragged this on so long that I regret this DYK nomination; I must apologize to the article's author, but if this issue cannot be resolved then it might as well just be closed and done with. When they said, 'Please be still'... (talk) 03:52, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

I guess it's time to try to find someone else to review this. I am not willing to pretend that this rateyourmusic.com page supports the statement This single was the first to be written by Dave Davies, with the only other Dave Davies-penned tracks that were A-sides on Kinks singles being "Living on a Thin Line", which was only a radio promo, and his solo releases (such as "Death of a Clown") that have since been considered Kinks songs, but maybe some other reviewer is willing to do so. --Orlady (talk) 04:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)