Template:Did you know nominations/Pitfalls
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:48, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
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Pitfalls
... that the final song on the 2019 album Pitfalls was created in "the zone"?Source- ALT1:
... that Pitfalls was one of drummer Mike Portnoy's favourite albums of 2019?Source - ALT2: ... that the 2019 album Pitfalls took shape from its songwriter's inner turmoil? Source
- Reviewed: Cow Myers (wetland)
- Comment: Promoted to Good Article status on 11 January 2020.
Improved to Good Article status by Cognissonance (talk). Self-nominated at 19:38, 11 January 2020 (UTC).
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Two comments, hopefully both relatively easy fixes. First, I'm struggling to find anything in ref 15 (Sonic Perspectives) that refers to the hook. Could you give specific help? Second, the use of quotation marks in the hook implies a direct quote, which isn't the case in the article—the article uses the wording "...when Solberg was immersed in a flow state". If there's a quote to use the colloquial phrase "in the zone" then that's great and we should add it, but if not the hook should be reworded to something like "... that the final song on the 2019 album Pitfalls was created while in a state of flow"? That said, I hope you can find a direct citation to use the phrase "in the zone". MIDI (talk) 13:04, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
@MIDI: He said he was in a flow, which refers to the same phenomenon. The quotation marks are only there because it's an informal term. Cognissonance (talk) 17:59, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
- Where, specifically, is this in the reference please? I still can't find it. MIDI (talk) 20:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
- @MIDI: From 14:43 to 15:58 in the interview. He also mentions this flow in ref. 7. Cognissonance (talk) 01:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks! For clarity, the exact quote is "...it's probably, except "Below", the song that I wrote fastest. Sometimes you just get in flow...". I have updated the review to reflect that this is now a verified citation. I've softened on my stance of using the quotation marks, but I'm not sure how remarkable being in the zone is in these circumstances. May I propose an alternative hook that builds on your original one? MIDI (talk) 10:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
ALT1orig: "... that the longest song on Pitfalls was one of the fastest to be written, as the composer was in a creative state of flow?"- @MIDI: I'm sorry, but that wouldn't hook me. It's too long and all over the place. I still think that the primary meat to this hook should be the flow state a.k.a. "the zone". The current hook is more succinct and direct. Cognissonance (talk) 11:37, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
- I can't agree with your above points, simply because I don't believe there is anything particularly remarkable or hooky about a creative person being in such a mindset while producing or undertaking their art. I think I'll have to stand back from this review and let another editor take over, and for that I apologise. MIDI (talk) 12:18, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
- @MIDI: I'm sorry, but that wouldn't hook me. It's too long and all over the place. I still think that the primary meat to this hook should be the flow state a.k.a. "the zone". The current hook is more succinct and direct. Cognissonance (talk) 11:37, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks! For clarity, the exact quote is "...it's probably, except "Below", the song that I wrote fastest. Sometimes you just get in flow...". I have updated the review to reflect that this is now a verified citation. I've softened on my stance of using the quotation marks, but I'm not sure how remarkable being in the zone is in these circumstances. May I propose an alternative hook that builds on your original one? MIDI (talk) 10:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
- @MIDI: From 14:43 to 15:58 in the interview. He also mentions this flow in ref. 7. Cognissonance (talk) 01:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Would another editor please take over the review of this DYK nomination? MIDI (talk) 12:19, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
- Hey, new reviewer. This is a timely GA nomination, QPQ present, no textual problems I can see. I have to agree with MIDI here, Cognissonance. ALT1 doesn't strike me as hooky, either. I'd like to suggest an ALT2: Raymie (t • c) 05:20, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
ALT2orig: ... that the 2019 album Pitfalls was written during a depressive period in Leprous vocalist Einar Solberg's life, "no filters, no metaphors, just the truth"? Source- @Raymie: I'm not gonna let someone else write a hook for my nomination. Cognissonance (talk) 05:29, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
- I won't poke the bear, but I will say that I have suggested hooks for nominations that have gone up to the Main Page: Cypress Creek Middle High School, The Beautiful World of Jeffree Star, Union Literary Institute, Girl on the Third Floor. Raymie (t • c) 05:40, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Raymie: I'm not gonna let someone else write a hook for my nomination. Cognissonance (talk) 05:29, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
- Comment re: ALT1: The hook and cite match, but the article doesn't state that the album was one of Mike Portnoy's favourite albums of the year—rather, that he included it in a list of best albums. These are not necessarily interchangeable terms; to appreciate something's quality isn't the same as liking it. That said, it should be an easy fix to reword the article—I have not done this myself as there are multiple citations for one sentence and I haven't the time to ensure whatever I reword doesn't change the other citations. MIDI (talk) 21:05, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
- The hook doesn't have to be identical to what's in the article. Cognissonance (talk) 10:31, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
- No, but as I've said, the wording in the article may imply a different meaning to the wording of the source. You've brought this DYK nomination for review and seem to not be happy with any feedback from editors. Please consider that others are able to review the hook and article objectively, and that they are more likely to want to help if met with a constructive attitude. MIDI (talk) 10:40, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's not feedback to push hooks on another editor's nomination, especially when every one of mine is rejected, which makes me think you just want your own work to be passed. If I were open to that I wouldn't have nominated it in the first place. Cognissonance (talk) 11:29, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Cognissonance and MIDI: It's been several weeks since the last comments here, has there been any progress made on the article or nomination? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:52, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
- Working on getting another reviewer. Cognissonance (talk) 15:25, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Good to go for ALT2. Source states the songwriter had 'Depression and nervous episodes'. Cognissance has reworded this to 'inner turmoil' for the hook. While I happen to agree with the other reviewers regarding the original hook and ALT1, I think the paraphrasing for ALT2 is fine. Damien Linnane (talk) 06:25, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
- Note: for clarity, since there have been two ALT1 and two ALT2 hooks, I'm changing the struck ones to ALT1orig and ALT2orig respectively, since they were written prior to the ALT1 and ALT2 later added by Cognissonance. I have also struck the original hook and ALT1 as well, since they were not approved when ALT2 was. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:02, 14 February 2020 (UTC)