Template:Did you know nominations/Pigache

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Pigache

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Fulk of Anjou, Philip I, and their wife Bertrade wearing pigaches [alt: scorpion's tails or ram's horns]

St Anselm before the king and his pigaches

~~... that Robert the Horny became famous for curling the ends of his pigaches (pictured) with tow?~~ Source: Orderic Vitalis, Eccl. Hist., Book VIII, Ch. 10, and Robert Mills, Seeing Sodomy in the Middle Ages, p. 82.
- ALT1: ... that the pointy-toed pigache (pictured) is also known as the pulley shoe?
  
  Source: William M. Aird, "Orderic's Secular Rulers...", Orderic Vitalis..., p. 196, and Elizabeth Coatsworth & al., Clothing the Past..., p. 349.
- ALT2: ... that scorpion's tails (pictured) used to be the height of French and English fashion?
  
  Source: Orderic Vitalis, Eccl. Hist., Book VIII, Ch. 10; Robert Mills, Seeing Sodomy in the Middle Ages, p. 82; Doreen Yarwood, Costume of the Western World..., p. 163.
- ALT3: ... that ram's horns (pictured) used to be the height of French and English fashion?
  
  Source: Orderic Vitalis, Eccl. Hist., Book VIII, Ch. 10; Robert Mills, Seeing Sodomy in the Middle Ages, p. 82; Doreen Yarwood, Costume of the Western World..., p. 163.
- ALT4: ... that medieval historians believed the stylish pulley shoe (pictured) was used to chase women with every kind of lewdness while simultaneously turning its wearers gay?
  
  Source: Orderic Vitalis, Eccl. Hist., Book VIII, Ch. 10; Robert Mills, Seeing Sodomy in the Middle Ages, pp. 82–83.
- ALT5: ... that St Anselm banned the stylish pigache (pictured) at the same synod that forbade the wicked trade—hitherto practiced in England—of selling men like beasts?
  
  Source: G.G. Perry, A History of the English Church, pp. 190–191
- ALT6: ... ~~that the earlier shorter form of the medieval pointed-toe shoe was the pigache (pictured)?~~
  
  Source: Orderic Vitalis, Eccl. Hist., Book VIII, Ch. 10, and Doreen Yarwood, Illustrated Encyclopedia of World Costume, p. 366.
- Reviewed: ~~TBA~~ Vatican Hebrew MS. 133
- Comment: (1) Don't worry: You only need to check the sourcing on the specific hook you like. (2) Kindly don't add links to any hook: the entire point of DYK is to drive traffic to these articles. The curious can click through afterwards as needed. (3) Kindly adjust the caption to match the form of the name in the hook. (4) The St Anselm image can be used instead for ALT5 if that's the one you like best. (5) The caption is accurate: there's an unsourced infobox claim on one of their pages that Fulk & Bertrade divorced the same year she ran off with/was abducted by the French king but, even if that paperwork got filed later (which is unclear), they were still married at the time of the royal wedding, much to the annoyance of the church.

5x expanded by LlywelynII (talk). Self-nominated at 20:23, 16 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Pigache; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Reviewing. jengod (talk) 22:46, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: (1) great job unstubbing this into a mini-medieval history lesson!

(2) Approving Alts1-5 (Alt0 is confusing bc tow (fibre) is not readily understood by the layperson, and alt6 is relatively boring while all the rest are delightful DYK options); I personally prefer ALT1, ALT2 or ALT3 for their shoe-centricity and ease of readability

(3) both images are technically acceptable but I strongly recommend the square color one File:Bertrada Fulko-Berta.jpg for readability on the main page as it is both pleasant viewing and effortlessly signals "medieval" - readers can/should/will click to read for more nuance

(4) caption phrasing "and their wife" is correct and interesting (see Llewelyn's note 5 for more); however for simplicity's sake and again for the lay reader, I might recommend something simpler, such as French elites in pigaches or French royals wearing pigaches jengod (talk) 23:25, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@Jengod: Thanks for the high praise but remember that people won't see it if you forget to {{ping}}, {{re}}, {{yo}}, &c. them. Anyway, thanks.

To promoter: Personally prefer my caption, of course, & more hooky. Main thing, of course, is not adding needless links here since people should be clicking through into the article improved, not the ones doing fine on their own. — LlywelynII 09:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Edit: Note that there was an extensive discussion of the promoted hook at WP:ERRORS on the day it went to the main page. — LlywelynII 15:08, 14 August 2023 (UTC)