Template:Did you know nominations/Midland Main Line upgrade

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 00:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Midland Main Line upgrade

(

)

... ~~that the electrification of the Midland Main Line north of Kettering was revived in December 2021 after being paused in 2015, then scrapped in July 2017?~~

Source: paused scrapped in 2017, then revived

ALT1: ... ~~that the Midland Main Line electrification project is going at a "snail's pace"?~~ Source: https://westbridgfordwire.com/midland-mainline-electrification-by-2030-in-government-plans/
Reviewed: ~~Template:Did you know nominations/Azahriah~~
Template:Did you know nominations/Eve (Stellar Blade)
Comment: My fifth nomination and I need a QPQ for the first time. Luckily, I did that a few months ago. Also, my first GA article, though I didn't make that

Improved to Good Article status by JuniperChill (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 5 past nominations.

JuniperChill (talk) 20:52, 6 August 2024 (UTC).

What's surprising or interesting about this hook? "Infrastructure project delayed" is not surprising anywhere in the world, especially an Anglophone country. (t · c) buidhe 04:55, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Hopefully this is more interesting, but idk if the wording is the best.

- - ALT2: ~~"that when the Midland Main Line was first electrified in the 1980s between London and Bedford, driver-only operation was introduced, leading to industrial dispute?~~"JuniperChill (talk) 18:03, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
    - ALT2A: "that when driver-only operation was introduced after electrification of the Midland Main Line south of Bedford, it was the subject of industrial dispute?"
    - Drive-by ALT3: ... that although the electrification of the Midland Main Line was designated high priority in 1981, work to electrify the northern part of the line did not begin until over 30 years later? Kimikel (talk) 02:18, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
      - @Kimikel: Remember that the section of the MML south of Bedford was electrified in the 80s. However, north of Bedford, it remained unelectrified until 2019, and it only extends to just south of Leicester, formerly Kettering until July 2024. So maybe adding "north of Bedford" would make more sense. JuniperChill (talk) 10:34, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
        Thanks for the correction, just clarified. Kimikel (talk) 21:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Reviewing... Starting a review. Flibirigit (talk) 01:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing: - ?
Neutral: - ?
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - ?

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - ?
Interesting:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: The article passed GA status on August 5, and nominated the next day for DYK. Length is adequate. Sourcing needs improvement. I have added multiple citation needed tags where the source is unclear. There are WP:CLOP issues with here because the Wikipedia does not attribute the direct quote as per the original source. Both images used in the article are freely licensed on the Commons. A complete QPQ has not been done. The reviewer only commented on dates and hooks, and did not appear to check any of the other DYK policies. Please see WP:QPQ for details. I am still analyzing the article for neutrality and the hooks. Flibirigit (talk) 01:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC) Flibirigit (talk) 01:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I question the neutrality of this article due to extensive use of quotes in the "21st century proposals" section. Why are the comments by "Ryan Scott" important, and is he even notable? If not, please paraphrase. The quotes by Patrick McLoughlin are not properly attributed, and I question whether they can be paraphrased instead. This also would also benefit from the use of the {{convert}} template for measurements. Articles should be readable by persons not familiar with British units. I'm still contemplating the hooks. Flibirigit (talk) 01:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I have struck ALT0 for being boring and mundane. As noted by User:buidhe, it is not uncommon for large infastructure projects to be delayed. I have struck ALT1 for presenting a quote by a "council leader" as a fact. Any such quirky quotes must be clearly identified as a quote, never as a fact, and be properly attributed and cited in the nominated article. I'm still pondering the other two ALTs. Will comment further tomorrow. Flibirigit (talk) 01:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

ALT2 and ALT3 both have potential to be interesting hooks. ALT2 should be slightly reworded to avoid WP:SEAOFBLUE by consecutive wikilinks. ALT2 claims "leading to industrial dispute", whereas the text in the article states "subject of an industrial dispute". There is a difference here in causality, and the source is only available to those logged into the host site. Please clarify and make consistent. The first half of ALT3 is easily verifiable, but I am unsure where the source is located for "work to electrify the northern part of the line did not begin until over 30 years later". Please clarify and cite the source. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 00:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I have rephrased my ALT2 hook named "ALT2A" (see above). I also note that MOS:SEAOFBLUE only applies if there are two blue links next to each other, without a divider, like in the example I just gave. The original hook had a comma between the two. Additionally, it looks like a lot of work has been done to remove the citation needed tags by another editor. Sorry if I wasn't available, I was on a mini-holiday. I will also provide a new QPQ review. JuniperChill (talk) 19:38, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

New QPQ provided. Also updated the review section accordingly. JuniperChill (talk) 20:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Will review the changes and post a reply within 24 hours. Flibirigit (talk) 01:37, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

The QPQ for "Eve (Stellar Blade)" is valid. Thanks. Will continue with the rest of the changes during the day. Flibirigit (talk) 13:48, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Sourcing concerns are mostly resolved, except for one citation needed tag on the first paragraph in the "History and earlier proposals" section. Please see the neutrality and CLOP concerns listed above. I suggest paraphrasing the lengthy quotes, or using direct attribution where necessary. I have struck ALT2 in favour of the stronger ALT2a with better wording. Please resolve the concerns for ALT3 for it to be approved. As noted above, the QPQ is complete. Flibirigit (talk) 23:34, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Added one last citation, paraphased some of the quoted hooks, and found a source for the final part of ALT3. JuniperChill (talk) 20:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

The sourcing issues have been resolved. I have duplicated the necessary citation to support the second half of ALT3. Tentative approval is for ALT2 and ALT3. There are still WP:CLOP issues with this quote by Patrick McLoughlin, because the Wikipedia does not attribute the direct quote as per the original source. Concerns about neutrality have still not been addressed. Please see the paragraph above which begins with "I question the neutrality of this article". Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 21:43, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

So to recap, I provided a new QPQ (good thing I've been reviewing articles long before my 5th nomination), added sourcing (though it was mostly added by another editor), provided an interesting hook (after they were struck out) with a source to back it up, and fixed some attribution issues. I also provided conversions using the convert template (I usually do it manually since 1mi is ca. 1.6km and I find it easier to do that). But in short, since the last comment, I (may have) finally fixed the attribution/neutrality issues! But since its midnight for me (in the UK, the same location as the subject of this page), I have to go and sleep now and won't be back until ca. 16:00 UTC/17:00BST. JuniperChill (talk) 23:07, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Approving ALT2 and ALT3. WP:CLOP and neutrality issues have been resolved. Quotes have been trimmed and attributed. I see no other concerns here. Flibirigit (talk) 23:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)