Template:Did you know nominations/Mattias Alexander von Ungern-Sternberg

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Narutolovehinata5 talk 02:48, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Mattias Alexander von Ungern-Sternberg

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Mattias Alexander von Ungern-Sternberg

... that field marshal Mattias Alexander von Ungern-Sternberg (pictured) fought on the side of the French and the Dutch, but later sided with the Caps? Source: Most easily available (in Swedish) is this though it's a bit dated; but Rosander 2003 concurs with it.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Aquilegia sibirica
- Comment:

Created by Yakikaki (talk). Self-nominated at 15:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Mattias Alexander von Ungern-Sternberg; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Comment, not review: the key passages in the source provided seem to be lämnade [Ungern-Sternberg] med vederbörlig tillåtelse svenska hären midt under Carl XII:s krig, för att först i fransk och sedan i holländsk tjänst lära sig krigets yrke. Under dessa läroår deltog han i spanska tronföljdskriget, först på fransk, sedan på holländsk, sida and on the following page Med anledning däraf, och särskildt som en af Mössornas hufvudmän, hvilket parti i följd af missnöjet med den eländiga krigföringen började få ökadt inflytande, kallades han att vid riksmötet 1742 emottaga landtmarskalksstafven,, where Mössorna = the Caps. TSventon (talk) 16:43, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the kind clarification. Yakikaki (talk) 16:51, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

New, well-written, long enough, image properly licensed. The info in the hook is apparently verified, but it does not have worldwide appeal in this form, and it doesn't seem like the implied juxtaposition is immediately apparent. I suppose that the hook means to say something along the lines of: "he had fought for the French and the Dutch, but then joined the Russophile Caps". That would be interesting, granted, but this fact would need to spelled outright in the article (and be mentioned in the sources it uses, of course). To add to the awkwardness, the article goes on to say that he never actually expressed Russophilia -- presumably, he adhered to the Caps because he agreed with the other aspects of their platform; I would also like to see this fact, namely his hesitation to express either Francophilia or Russophilia, clearly referenced, as it is not immediately apparent if the citations at the very end of that paragraph are for all the sentences before. This needs to be clarified, either way, or another hook should be suggested. Dahn (talk) 13:58, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, hm. I was aiming for a certain comical effect. As in, he first fought for the French and the Dutch, OK, well-known European states battling it out in Europe of the times, and then sided with – the Caps?! Who in the blazes were they? And what kind of a name is that for a faction? I thought it had quite a lot of hookiness, myself. Yakikaki (talk) 14:45, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I get it, it's sort of like "the Moops". I disagree though that the gimmick makes it interesting -- it isn't even wordplay, it's quite... bland. Dahn (talk) 15:03, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

@Yakikaki and Dahn: Can we get some alt hooks so this can move along? Z1720 (talk) 14:55, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

For my part this can be closed. I have no alternative hook in mind, and the reviewer didn't get what I was aiming at with the original. Yakikaki (talk) 18:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Maybe something on his rather weird one-month contribution to the Pomeranian War? Dahn (talk) 19:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

The nominator has indicated that this can be closed, and they have not suggested alt hooks, so I am marking it as such. This can be removed if someone else wishes to propose alts. Z1720 (talk) 19:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)