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Round symbols for illustrating comments about the DYK nomination The following is an archived discussion of Matthias Eisenberg's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you knowDYK comment symbol (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 22:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC).

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Matthias Eisenberg

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Created by Dr. Blofeld (talk), Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 21:52, 8 April 2013 (UTC).

  • Quite a lot of unsourced statements in this article. I'm not overly impressed with the hook either, although admittedly I couldn't see an obvious alt in the article. Gatoclass (talk) 13:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
  • References added. For some statements of the translation from German we still found no ref, please check again if we should drop them or AGF? - Hook: I tried to combine the perhaps unknown organist with known items, such as the extraordinary Jewish clarinetist Feidman or the Abbey where a famous movie was filmed, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
  • The sentence "He appeared outside East Germany, in 1983 at the Bach Festival in Graz and in 1985 at the Internationale Bachakademie Stuttgart" is not backed up by ref 1, even though it is cited. Furthermore, how about this hook? *ALT1: ... that former Gewandhaus organist Matthias Eisenberg was made an honorary professor in 2003 by the Prime Minister of Schleswig-Holstein for his contributions to organ music?
Cheers! —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 10:21, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I added a ref for 1983 (1985 was sourced). - I confess that I prefer to mention music to honours, there's much more music in Giora Feidman than any Prime Minister ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • It's not all that out of the ordinary for musicians to perform with fellow musicians. Where as receiving an honorary academic degree is far rarer, and thus more appropriate to use as a hook. How much "music" there is in any particular person is not a criterium for DYK. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 12:51, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I only answered your question what I think about your ALT. A Protestant German church organist playing with a Jewish Israeli clarinetist, is not so ordinary, if you ask me, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm positive we don't want to imply racism or antisemitism on Wikipedia's front page, so my objections to your first hook have become stronger. Anyway, since we have a dispute about what hook should be chosen, I'll bring in a new reviewer. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 13:12, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I would still like to understand what playing together (!) would have to do with antisemitism? (On top of that it is not mentioned?) - The two understand their concerts as a peace mission. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:20, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • That's why I said implied antisemitism. You mentioned that a German and an Israeli playing together is something extraordinary. That leads to the question why that is so out of the ordinary. The answer to that question seems to point in the direction of racial hatred among inhabitants of either Germany or Israel. Anyway: —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 14:34, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

As I said the original hook was weak - musicians playing with musicians at a festival, what's so unusual about that? Amberrock's hook is much better IMO. Gatoclass (talk) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I tried to explain my POV above. I wrote the article under the impression of highly unusual concert experiences, not because someone was made honorary professor. But you will tell me that it is irrelevant ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
You would need a source to say that it was a highly unusual pairing and why, and then that fact itself should be made the core of the hook statement. Failing that, I would have to support Amber's hook. Gatoclass (talk) 16:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
You can support ALT1, of course. Giora Feidman is a well-known personality. Eberbach Abbey is known even to movie-goers. - When I do reviews, I let the prep-builder decide. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:30, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Reviewing the juicyness of the hook is part of the reviewing process as well. When there are two possible hooks which are equally catchy, it's definitely OK to allow the nominator the final say. But in this case, we have two hooks out of which one is clearly superior to the other one in the opinion of two non-related reviewers. In situations like this, the reviewers can insist on striking the inferior one. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 17:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps I take DYK too literally. I come here to make something known, I did so more than 400 times. "Juicy" and "catchy" come second, at least for me. A bit more on the duo, and an announcement, quote: "Two religions – one language: music - Together they create music which deletes all boundaries – between their different creeds, between gravity and frolic, between so-called serious and the light-hearted. They even delete the boundary between themselves and the audience, by inviting you in and giving of themselves. The perspective is both musical and spiritual. Any concert by Feidman and Matthias Eisenberg is replete with the grandeur of musical companionship. " - My experience: it's not promising too much, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:40, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Where is antisemitism being seen?PumpkinSky talk 17:24, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I explained the situation here. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 17:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I think you're making WAY TOO BIG of a stretch there. I'm not seeing that at all and think both hooks are fine. PumpkinSky talk 18:13, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Okay, please let's not get sidetracked over whether a comment about "antisemitism" was justified or not. This page is for discussion of the merits of a DYK nomination, nothing more, digressions of this type are neither relevant nor helpful. Gatoclass (talk) 18:27, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Any additional thoughts by other reviewers on which hook should be chosen? —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 20:29, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
May I politely point out that the main question is if the article is ready now? So far we have a symbol that I never used in any review, I use the question mark. Yesterday I left a review approving three hooks, today one was chosen, not my favourite, but fine with me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • A review would be nice.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 12:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
    • I prefer ALT1, though the original is ok too. All checks out. PumpkinSky talk 20:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
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